95 acura legend brake swap

[hammer3rd]

If it was a small spacer that moved the caliper towards the gas tank, that would be easy. That's not the case tho, the caliper would have to be moved out as in towards the tire. That's not a simple bracket, plus the rotors are not readily available unless ordered online. As for the Legend calipers, those GS twin piston calipers are as easy to find as the Type-R calipers, I think they actually came on some models of the odyssey. Parts really shouldn't be a problem, its just the extra labor of bleeding. I'm not really sure how to bleed the brake caliper off the car since that will push the piston out, and make it difficult to put onto the rotor.

EDIT: Misunderstood what you were saying. You meant a spacer for the front. I didn't even have to use a spacer.

Good even better that you didnt use a spacer And yeah I was talking about the rear caliper upgrade. I haveing buying parts for a while to build/rebuild my 88. And I am getting ready to start buying the breaks and such. So I am going back through old posts and looking for the best of the factory type upgrades to put on my car and your name keeps comeing up. I think the legend 2 piston caliper would be great if it functioned like it should meaning the bleeder screw( light bulb, why cant you just buy threaded plug and plug the factory bleed screw hole and redrill and tao a new hole on the high side of the caliper). But I do not want anything that is not 100% servicable and reliable on my car. I work in maintenance and I see every day what bandaids do to reliability to machineary. But any way yours and old blue's 11" inch upgrade is looking mighty good at this point. Thanks for the hard work on these cars it makes it a lot eaiser for the rest of us.

[Oldblueaccord]

Actually, the dual piston GS calipers were not hard to find at all. Now the NSX calipers on the other hand...
Not quite sure why you're discouraging the GS swap cuz it's the same as the itr, except for the bleeding issue, which I don't consider to be that big a problem.

While your digging in the have you looked into the 11.8" rotor? Only fits a few 15" wheels.

Sorry for the ht link buts its fairly informative.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2906054

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EDIT

I looked on Rockauto the NSX caliper seems to be available. There about 175$ with the core charge. If you go local you might be able to slide around this.

[H2289Acc]

If it was a small spacer that moved the caliper towards the gas tank, that would be easy. That's not the case tho, the caliper would have to be moved out as in towards the tire. That's not a simple bracket, plus the rotors are not readily available unless ordered online. As for the Legend calipers, those GS twin piston calipers are as easy to find as the Type-R calipers, I think they actually came on some models of the odyssey. Parts really shouldn't be a problem, its just the extra labor of bleeding. I'm not really sure how to bleed the brake caliper off the car since that will push the piston out, and make it difficult to put onto the rotor.

EDIT: Misunderstood what you were saying. You meant a spacer for the front. I didn't even have to use a spacer.

From what I've read, the guys who have done the GS swap bleed the brakes using a wooden block or spacer between the pads in order to keep the piston in. Seems easy enough.

[H2289Acc]

I looked on Rockauto the NSX caliper seems to be available. There about 175$ with the core charge. If you go local you might be able to slide around this.

All of the websites list them but when it comes to ordering them, that's a different story. I've made several attempts to order them and I always get an e-mail response saying they are out of stock indefinitely. A lot of these websites don't bother to update their inventory, or rather list the items and depend on their suppliers to keep them in stock. It looks like the left side is the only one I can get my hands on.

The other problem is that whenever someone sends a set out to get rebuilt, they are obviously gonna want them back; any previous overflow of rebuilt NSX calipers have been scooped up by guys putting them on cars they weren't originally intended for (eg. itrs, civics, accords, ludes, etc.), hence the lack of supply. The only way to get 'em now would be to find 'em at a scrap yard...yeeeah! And there's no way in hell I'm paying $1200+ for a brand new set from Honda!

[H2289Acc]

Oh, and another thing...apparently the NSX calipers can be swapped directly without the bleeding issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the NSX has its calipers bolted on to the front of the hub. That was the main reason I wanted to go NSX calipers rather than GS...and for the "NSX" stamp of course! lol

[lostforawhile]

Actually, I was originally going to go with the straight-forward itr caliper upgrade until I did a lot of research. This conversion has been done on a lot of civics, itrs, 4th gen v-tec ludes and 5th gen accords. From what I've read, the civic and 5th gen accord calipers are mounted the same as ours, on the front of the rotor. Trick is to bleed the calipers while they're off with the bleeder facing up. Apparently after they're bled, they can then be mounted upside down without any issues. As far as the brackets go, there is a thread that lists all the caliper/bracket combos that are compatible with our cars, the 91-96 NSX and 95 Legend GS included. I have a set of itr calipers and brackets laying around so I did the comparison to the GS brackets and the bolt spacing is in fact the same. Also, I had originally ordered the redrilled 89 Legend rotors from Brian at Fastbrakes, but before they were shipped, I found out I could use the thicker v-tec lude rotors (23mm as opposed to 21mm) which are more suitable for the itr or gs caliper upgrade in terms of brake pad spacing.

I'll post more pics and let you guys know how it goes when I get around to the install.

what is the issue with the bleeders facing up? is it a matter of reaching the bleeder bolts? if you can get to the bleeder bolts, you put a piece of hose on the bleeder bolt and submerge the hose in brake fluid in a jar, that excludes air from getting back into the system, you are forcing out air with hydraulic pressure by pumping the brake pedal, it doesn't really care about the orientation of the bleeder,another alternative is a set of speed bleeder bleeder bolts with the built in check valve. Or you can get a pressure bleeder kit, they are common now due to the number of ABS cars on the road,how were you bleeding them before, gravity? it's a closed hydraulic system, force out the air it doesn't care what direction something is facing

[Vanilla Sky]

The air will travel to the top of the fluid, so unless that's where it's bleeding, you're going to have a pocket of air. That's why bleeder orientation matters. It's the same reason my Jeep's cooling system can be such a pain to bleed, as it has high spots that trap pockets of air.

[lostforawhile]

The air will travel to the top of the fluid, so unless that's where it's bleeding, you're going to have a pocket of air. That's why bleeder orientation matters. It's the same reason my Jeep's cooling system can be such a pain to bleed, as it has high spots that trap pockets of air.

thats why the pressure bleeder, you can get them for mitivac systems too, you are forcing fluid into the system, a speedbleed valve or hose to brake fluid, and all of the air is forced out. they can get expensive, but there are a number of solutions on making your own online, we have this same issue bleeding the airplane brakes, they made up one with a small air compressor tank, and some fittings,they put brake fluid in the tank and use compressed air to force it into the system, the pressure bleeders are popular due to ABS brakes, not only do they prevent dirt from possibly getting in, the ABS system had issues with air pockets being trapped, and being hard to bleed, fluid under pressure forces everything out, you can also vaccume bleed which will pull any air out,probably eaisier to do and cheaper

[Oldblueaccord]

thats why the pressure bleeder, you can get them for mitivac systems too, you are forcing fluid into the system, a speedbleed valve or hose to brake fluid, and all of the air is forced out. they can get expensive, but there are a number of solutions on making your own online, we have this same issue bleeding the airplane brakes, they made up one with a small air compressor tank, and some fittings,they put brake fluid in the tank and use compressed air to force it into the system, the pressure bleeders are popular due to ABS brakes, not only do they prevent dirt from possibly getting in, the ABS system had issues with air pockets being trapped, and being hard to bleed, fluid under pressure forces everything out

rewriting laws of Physics again are we?


wp

[lostforawhile]

rewriting laws of Physics again are we?


wp

no, if you force enough fluid into the system the air is forced out, it has to go somewhere

[cygnus x-1]

what is the issue with the bleeders facing up?

The problem is not which way the bleeders are facing, it's where they are located on the caliper. In this application they end up on the bottom instead of on the top, so the trapped air at the top doesn't ever make it to the bleeder. Using a pressure/vacuum system to bleed will probably help but still may not get all the air. The simple solution is to remove the lower caliper mounting bolt and flip the caliper up so the bleeder is at the top. Then put a block of wood between the pads to keep the pistons from pushing out too far and bleed as normal. When finished remove the block and swing the caliper back down. Done.


C|

[hammer3rd]

Ok so if we can for us newer viewers can someone tell the best front setup useing mostly factory parts and that are easy to get. Please LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[H2289Acc]

The problem is not which way the bleeders are facing, it's where they are located on the caliper. In this application they end up on the bottom instead of on the top, so the trapped air at the top doesn't ever make it to the bleeder. Using a pressure/vacuum system to bleed will probably help but still may not get all the air. The simple solution is to remove the lower caliper mounting bolt and flip the caliper up so the bleeder is at the top. Then put a block of wood between the pads to keep the pistons from pushing out too far and bleed as normal. When finished remove the block and swing the caliper back down. Done.


C|

Thank you! You just made this sound really easy.

[hammer3rd]

No one has answered the question of why cant we just plug the hole on the bottom and drill and tap a new one on the high side so tha air can have a passage out.

[lostforawhile]

No one has answered the question of why cant we just plug the hole on the bottom and drill and tap a new one on the high side so tha air can have a passage out.

it's not just a hole, it's a specific taper so it seals when the bleeder it tightened,just like an AN fitting does, the area where the bleeder is is also an area with more metal for the bleeder to screw into,take a bleeder out one day and look at the end of it

[hammer3rd]

it's not just a hole, it's a specific taper so it seals when the bleeder it tightened,just like an AN fitting does, the area where the bleeder is is also an area with more metal for the bleeder to screw into,take a bleeder out one day and look at the end of it

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

[lostforawhile]

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

I don't mean the threads, I mean the end that goes into the caliper, it has a taper to it that seals with an identical taper,

[H2289Acc]

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.

[Legend_master]

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.

If I remember right the NSX caliper are mounted the same as the 2nd gen legend. With that said, I think the first gen NSX caliper is 11". The second gen is the larger brake setup. Either way the NSX calipers wil cost you more in the long run. I would do the legend calipers, and upgrade from there

[hammer3rd]

[QUOTE=Legend_master;1099393]If I remember right the NSX caliper are mounted the same as the 2nd gen legend. With that said, I think the first gen NSX caliper is 11". The second gen is the larger brake setup. Either way the NSX calipers wil cost you more in the long run. I would do the legend calipers, and upgrade from there[/QUOA

What do you have you done to yours. The legend front setup and the legend calipers on the rear?

[Legend_master]

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.

Did some research, and you are correct the NSX calipers mount in the same direction as the Accord. That would make for an easy bolt on, but expensive replacement part.

What do you have you done to yours. The legend front setup and the legend calipers on the rear?

I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

[hammer3rd]

Did some research, and you are correct the NSX calipers mount in the same direction as the Accord. That would make for an easy bolt on, but expensive replacement part.




I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

Thanks legend. Read some of your posts but could never find where you said this system preformed.

[MessyHonda]

I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

IM running the same set up. just drilled and slotted rotors and I been running it for more than 13k miles with no issues.

[hammer3rd]

IM running the same set up. just drilled and slotted rotors and I been running it for more than 13k miles with no issues.

Thanks messy. Does it stop well. Is it biased well front to back. Which prop valve do you have.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29191

pretty good chart for Honda brake swaps.



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