Another A/C thread...

[89HatchbackLxi]

Ok, so I've had my hatch for a little over a year now. When I first got the hatch, the owner said the AC was working. However, I remember when I test drove it, and turned on the AC, the air did not feel very cold, but it was not warm either. However, it felt near the same temperature as the outside air, maybe 5 or so degrees cooler at most. I remember seeing condensation dripping from the front left of the car after I test drove it, so I know the AC system was at least somewhat working when I bought the car.

However, ever since then (it got hot out about a month after I bought the car) the AC has never blown anything but outside temp air. When activated the AC system starts so the idle boost kicks in, car hums slightly until AC is turned off. Just doesn't blow cold out. I checked the sight glass after running it for 10 minutes, but don't see anything at all. No bubbles, no anything. No condensation or anything dripping from the car either - hasn't done that since I test drove it (that I remember at least).

Living in a california desert climate isn't the best place to be without AC in a car. So, I want to get my AC working. I like my car, and so I'd like to not wreck anything. However, no one around here seems to service car AC systems that use R-12.

I would like to retrofit my car to R-134a since I can get that stuff everywhere for fairly cheap. Preferably, I would love to just pay someone to do it for me, but it appears none of the local shops provide retrofitting either. Instead I am mostly told I would be better off buying a new car that has a R-134a system already built in, or am offered an entire new AC system that'll cost close to $1000. I don't want a new car, I like my hatch, I just want working air, but I don't want to pay money for something if I absolutely need to.

I've seen kits online (They took it off the shelves at the local autozone due to the fittings not meeting EPA regulations or something stupid like that) So I ordered this (http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-...words=ez+chill) off of amazon and it appears as though it should work. I know the A/C masters on this forum seem to think these types of kits suck. So, maybe they really do, but I figured paying $50 for a closed system kit that could possibly give me AC again might be worth a shot since I don't know the least about A/C other than what I've researched lately while trying to find a solution to my problem, and no shop around here wants to fix my AC.

Anyways, I believe the kit I ordered is supposed to allow me to add retrofit oil to my system as-is with the existing mineral oil so it will work with R-134a. All I need to do is find the High and Low pressure ports on my car, install the conversion fittings, add the oil, and then add the R-134a refrigerant. And the receiver drier only needs to be replaced if it the system gets opened right? So I should be good without replacing that?

I just want to know if anyone has done this with good results. I don't want a freezing cold AC system, just something that blows cool air instead of the outside 100+ degree air into the car. Is this safe to use on my car, so long as I follow the instructions properly and only add 22oz of R134a?

[nswst8]

Look on the suction line and discharge line to see if they have R134a retrofit adaptors already installed. If so. Then all you will need to do is refill with R134a, if and only if there is still some freon and it is still under vacuum.

http://youtu.be/5Q0sMQJre60

[ShyBoyCA6]

I bought one from pep boy with an adapter for R12 systems. i lost mine somewhere in my house. It worked pretty good besides a leaky ac hose. It blew cold air and worked fine. I have a ac here just lying on the ground and collecting dust lol. ill be throwing it away next week since i wont need it anymore.

[89HatchbackLxi]

Look on the suction line and discharge line to see if they have R134a retrofit adaptors already installed. If so. Then all you will need to do is refill with R134a, if and only if there is still some freon and it is still under vacuum.

http://youtu.be/5Q0sMQJre60

Edit: found both service ports. Appears to be the original fittings.

[89HatchbackLxi]

I bought one from pep boy with an adapter for R12 systems. i lost mine somewhere in my house. It worked pretty good besides a leaky ac hose. It blew cold air and worked fine. I have a ac here just lying on the ground and collecting dust lol. ill be throwing it away next week since i wont need it anymore.

Cool. I'm hoping I have similar luck with it.

[89HatchbackLxi]

Assuming I were to discharge the A/C myself, I would need a Vacuum pump, AC Manifold Gauge Set, and a recovery cylinder to catch any remaining freon in the system? Basically do what the guy in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5w3lR88fqQ video is doing? After doing this I would also need to replace the receiver drier correct, since this involves opening the system?

Finally, after that process I should be able to recharge my system using the R-134a Retrofit kit by following the instructions in the video that you posted a link to nswst?

[Buzo]

Use your break booster hose and your idling engine as vacuum pump. It will suck all the remainings from your A/C system. Since your car does not longer blows cold air, I assume all the R12 is already in the atmosphere, so don't be afraid of opening your system without recovering the refrigerant, It will not kill any more penguins in the south pole.

I did similar research for my car last year, with the difference that my car already had the 132a fittings. So I proceeded with a simple recharge, it worked OK but 2 weeks later it threw all the refrigerant away. I saw a big leak of some type of oil exactly below the AC pulley. Paradoxically it's been too hot outside these days to go out and change all the A/C orings which i already bought from autozone.

General recommendations are to change the little pivots in the service ports before refilling. I may use the ultraviolet leak detector kit before my next recharge.

[DBMaster]

^^Amazing. If I am ever stranded on a deserted island I want Buzo and Lost to be my compadres. Creative solutions to problems with available resources are what will rule supreme post-apocalypse. (Not that I think it's about to happen, of course).

[Legend_master]

I would replace the dryer regardless of opening the system. The dryer is similar to a filter and does get filled over time. You should consider changing the o-rings as well, most likley that is were the freon leaked. Could be a very slow leak and your waisting your money by putting freon in (and leak out). You should look over the system, and see if January oil has leaked from it. That's a good indication that you have a leak.

[Buzo]

^^Amazing. If I am ever stranded on a deserted island I want Buzo and Lost to be my compadres. Creative solutions to problems with available resources are what will rule supreme pot-apocalypse. (Not that I think it's about to happen, of course).

I'm kind of motivated to attack that compressor tomorrow morning... We'll see.

[89HatchbackLxi]

I would replace the dryer regardless of opening the system. The dryer is similar to a filter and does get filled over time. You should consider changing the o-rings as well, most likley that is were the freon leaked. Could be a very slow leak and your waisting your money by putting freon in (and leak out). You should look over the system, and see if January oil has leaked from it. That's a good indication that you have a leak.

I plan to replace the o-rings and I ordered a new drier from autozone today. My plan is to remove the freon (if there is any) then replace the drier, then vacuum pull the system (I think I may have found a shop to do this -and the freon if there is any left- for me), then use the retrofit kit. I really don't see any residue or evidence that mineral oil had leaked out from anywhere. Maybe the guy at the shop can check to see if there are any major leaks.

[89HatchbackLxi]

I'm kind of motivated to attack that compressor tomorrow morning... We'll see.

Man, I wish I was good enough with the parts under the hood to do what you suggested with the brake booster, but I'm not that familiar with everything yet, and I'm still fairly new to cars themselves, so I'd probably make things worse if I tried to do that, lol.

[hammer3rd]

Dont forget the right orings. R134 takes a different typ of oring than R12. And the compresser oil is different also. Ester oil for R134. Dryer is a must to replace. But other than that should be easy. Fixed mine almost 6 years ago and still working well.

[nswst8]

Ester oil is the compatible oil for mineral and pag. If you don't fully flush out the system then use ester.

If you tear down and fully flush the system then you can use pag.

I used ester when I had a R134a converted system, it is 100% fine for this purpose.

[hammer3rd]

Ester oil is the compatible oil for mineral and pag. If you don't fully flush out the system then use ester.

If you tear down and fully flush the system then you can use pag.

I used ester when I had a R134a converted system, it is 100% fine for this purpose.

I was guessing he was not wanting to tear it all down and just fix what he had and go to 134. But you are exactly right. That is the proper way to do but it can be a little costly. But the green orings are very important also. If you use the factory orings it will last a while but either the ester oil or the 134 will eat away at the orings and they will leak(not sure which). Been there and bought the t shirt.but it is fairly simple with the ester.

[Pnem3]

Sorry to be "that guy" year after year, but I converted my Accord to a hydro-carbon based refrigerant 5 years or so ago when I got the car and I haven't had a bit of trouble with it since. My AC blows cold and does not leak. I haven't blown myself or anyone else up. Nothing has caught on fire. My compressor hasn't seized nor will it. I didn't have to change out the mineral oil in the system nor the receiver-dryer. There are threads on the boards if anyone cares to search. Like I always say, this isn't for everyone. Do your own research and find out if it might be a solution for you. If not, then you might want to find a way to fix your leaks and see if you can get your hands on real freon instead of converting to R134a.

[89HatchbackLxi]

Sorry to be "that guy" year after year, but I converted my Accord to a hydro-carbon based refrigerant 5 years or so ago when I got the car and I haven't had a bit of trouble with it since. My AC blows cold and does not leak. I haven't blown myself or anyone else up. Nothing has caught on fire. My compressor hasn't seized nor will it. I didn't have to change out the mineral oil in the system nor the receiver-dryer. There are threads on the boards if anyone cares to search. Like I always say, this isn't for everyone. Do your own research and find out if it might be a solution for you. If not, then you might want to find a way to fix your leaks and see if you can get your hands on real freon instead of converting to R134a.

Which refrigerant did you switch to? I've heard HFO-1234yf is supposed to start being used instead of of R-134a in new cars starting this next year or so, and I think it's even supposed to be a direct drop-in replacement for R-134a systems. I'm not sure if that last part is actually confirmed or not though.

[nswst8]

Just use R134a (22 ounces, this stuff operates at a higher pressure so you only use 80%), it's readily available. Buy from Walmart. Oreeilly's wasm being forced by California charge some enviroment fee. (BS)

[Oldblueaccord]

Which refrigerant did you switch to? I've heard HFO-1234yf is supposed to start being used instead of of R-134a in new cars starting this next year or so, and I think it's even supposed to be a direct drop-in replacement for R-134a systems. I'm not sure if that last part is actually confirmed or not though.

I think he used propane.

wp

[Dr_Snooz]

You might do well to fix your leaks first. I have found all the 134 port adapters to leak, so retrofitting first will introduce new leaks along with the old leaks to be tracked down. (I epoxy all those adapters on now just to make sure they don't leak.) Trust me when I say that finding multiple leaks is a real hassle. Get a vacuum pump and pump the system down to 30 Hg vacuum. Leave it overnight and see if it holds the vacuum. If it doesn't, you have a leak to find and fix. The o-ring seals can spring leaks, but the rubber hoses can too, usually around the crimp jackets. If you see a lot of oil around a crimp connection, you can be pretty sure it's leaking. You can buy new hoses or have the old hoses repaired. I have not found the UV dye to be useful for finding leaks...at all. I've put gallons of the stuff in my systems and never see anything coming out. I ended up buying a sniffer from Harbor Freight and that works very well.

If it were my car, I would tear apart the system and flush all the components. It's all very old and there is no telling what is blowing around in there. That's just me, of course, and I tend to be too OCD about these things.

I converted to 134 years ago when a can of it was $7. It works great. When it went up to $30/can here in California, I started filling with propane. You can buy special proprietary blends of it, like Duracool, for a lot, but I found BBQ gas right out of the cylinder to work very well. The best part is that 5 gal. of it costs $15. I run propane in all my cars now, but I don't think it is appropriate for an A/C newb. Learn how to do things right before getting creative.

Putting two entire 12 oz. cans in the system is the perfect fill and doesn't require that you try to store a half-empty can in the shed for a few years till you need it again.

I would recommend having someone knowledgeable around when you fill the system for the first time. At the least, watch lots of YouTube videos explaining the process in detail. If you aren't careful, you can wreck your compressor or blow up one of those cans in your face and that could be a trip to the emergency room. So please be careful.

[hammer3rd]

I have not found the UV dye to be useful for finding leaks...at all. I've put gallons of the stuff in my systems and never see anything coming out. I ended up buying a sniffer from Harbor Freight and that works very well.

Snooz. I did the same thing but I found that you have to have a uv light. The dye is only vizible with a uv light.

But all this information is good. All you have to do is use what you want to fix your car. And your wallet lol.

[Dr_Snooz]

i had the light. It was a little flashlight deal, so it might not have been big enough. Anyway, nothing showed up. I think the sniffer is by far the better way to go, but that's just me.

[hammer3rd]

i had the light. It was a little flashlight deal, so it might not have been big enough. Anyway, nothing showed up. I think the sniffer is by far the better way to go, but that's just me.

You are right. the big light does work better , but the sniffer is far better than both.

[nswst8]

Just alittle side note.

These systems are very easy to work on. everything is very accessible. I can replace all of the o-rings in the system in under an hour. This includes removing and re-installing the evaporator as well.

I'm not trying to brag, just trying to encourage you to not be intimidated by this system. This is a great system to learn on. Unlike others where you have to remove the dash to get to the evaporator (chyslers are notorious for this)

When you replace the o-rings, coat them, I use dielectric grease. just a light film. This helps to keep the o-rings from absorbing the oil in the system that causes o-ring failure. This is old school trick, I'm not sure if the nitrile o-rings are oil resistant, just an old school trick.

[Buzo]

You might do well to fix your leaks first. I have found all the 134 port adapters to leak, so retrofitting first will introduce new leaks along with the old leaks to be tracked down. (I epoxy all those adapters on now just to make sure they don't leak.) Trust me when I say that finding multiple leaks is a real hassle. Get a vacuum pump and pump the system down to 30 Hg vacuum. Leave it overnight and see if it holds the vacuum. If it doesn't, you have a leak to find and fix. The o-ring seals can spring leaks, but the rubber hoses can too, usually around the crimp jackets. If you see a lot of oil around a crimp connection, you can be pretty sure it's leaking. You can buy new hoses or have the old hoses repaired. I have not found the UV dye to be useful for finding leaks...at all. I've put gallons of the stuff in my systems and never see anything coming out. I ended up buying a sniffer from Harbor Freight and that works very well.

If it were my car, I would tear apart the system and flush all the components. It's all very old and there is no telling what is blowing around in there. That's just me, of course, and I tend to be too OCD about these things.

I converted to 134 years ago when a can of it was $7. It works great. When it went up to $30/can here in California, I started filling with propane. You can buy special proprietary blends of it, like Duracool, for a lot, but I found BBQ gas right out of the cylinder to work very well. The best part is that 5 gal. of it costs $15. I run propane in all my cars now, but I don't think it is appropriate for an A/C newb. Learn how to do things right before getting creative.

Putting two entire 12 oz. cans in the system is the perfect fill and doesn't require that you try to store a half-empty can in the shed for a few years till you need it again.

I would recommend having someone knowledgeable around when you fill the system for the first time. At the least, watch lots of YouTube videos explaining the process in detail. If you aren't careful, you can wreck your compressor or blow up one of those cans in your face and that could be a trip to the emergency room. So please be careful.

Do you have any propane odor in the cabin? I mean, if there was a leak, of course you would smell it, but I am referring to the odor of the gas transpiring through the condenser or something?

Another question though, you said 2 cans of 12 oz, and how much oil and what type do you add?