Lowering spring stiffness % over stock spring stiffness

[Jims 86LXI HB]

I was helping a member understand something about a certain spring by showing it's spring rates vs stock spring rates by showing it's percentage of increase over stock. I went ahead and did it for all the one's I have rates for. I did not do the eibach prokit or the sprints since the rate info I have is not the same rating system as the other's. I will call eibach and ask how I may figure out a way to rate them equally to the others, (I'll use that system for the sprints as well).

Notice the front to rear rate differences. Increasing the rear rate more than the front will reduce understeer. Increase the front MORE than the rear and you will have more understeer. Also take note of how much more spring power you'll be asking your struts to control

Brand front&rear %+ over stock

Tokico 1" front 66% rear 63%

Susp Tech 1" front 62% rear 54%

Eibach sp lines front 62% rear -32% (low figure double verified)
Eibach prokits front 44% rear -17%
*See note below on eibach spring rates

Neuspeed&
H&R 1.5" front 26% rear 41% (softest lowering spring ava.)

Progress 2" group front 70% rear 205%

B&G 1.6" front 66% rear 205%

Suspen techniques
speed tech 2" front 73% rear 196%

sprint
2.25" front 66% rear 192%

Ground-Control front 61% rear 214%

Dropzone coilovers front 213% rear 300%

Spring tech coilovers front 213% rear 300%

*After talking to eibach to find out how to rate the prokit's they said that the first spring rate they gave me should be equal to how the other spring makers gave out their spring rates. So, the prokits are front 308lbs to 742lbs rear 97lbs to 200lbs. The first numbers are with the car's weight resting on the springs. The second number when the spring is fully compressed. It should be noted that with the sportlines the absolute max stiffness their rear springs can do is only 21% stiffer than stock and that's when the spring is full compressed. Most aftermarket rear springs start off being stiffer without being compressed at all.

[Site]

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
Notice the front to rear rate differences. Increasing the rear rate more than the front will reduce understeer. Increase the front MORE than the rear and you will have more understeer.

So that would make H&R, Neuspeed, B&G and all coilovers more desirable for handling - correct?

With the H&Rs & Neuspeeds being the softest - does that mean that they would not be good for strong cornering?

Thanks, Jim, for always being willing to share what you know!

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Well I think that 9 out of 10 people will be happy with the stiffness of the H&R's. If was only when I was flying and really pushing things that I'd wish I had stiffer springs and stiffer strut valving. If you never push things to 10/10's (like me) they are just fine. If I hadn't wrecked my car I'd be on ground-controls that are stiffer than stock one's and with my revalved Bilsteins.
I'm sure I would be happy with standard GC's, but figured that if I was paying for them, I'd might as well kick'em up yet another notch

[Site]

I've been wanting to try the B&Gs out. My concern is that one of the guys on the board has them and instead of dropping 1.6 in, they dropped well over 2 in. I'm really wanting to get into AutoXing, so I need strong cornering (hence my desire to try B&Gs), but I don't really wanna drop much more than 1.5 in.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Site
I've been wanting to try the B&Gs out. My concern is that one of the guys on the board has them and instead of dropping 1.6 in, they dropped well over 2 in. I'm really wanting to get into AutoXing, so I need strong cornering (hence my desire to try B&Gs), but I don't really wanna drop much more than 1.5 in.

Yeah I know what you mean. Just don't understand why they did that to markmdz89hatch. I fully surport you not wanting to go below 1.5". Yeah I think our car's look better below that, but if you want to kick it up a notch at the track I think it makes more sense to be at 1.5". Unfortunately I think ground-controls would be the way to go, unless you think you can beat the odds that the B&G's will give you the 1.6" drop their surposed to do.

[88LXi68]

Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

On another the note, I noticed that the b&gs dont have the usual front end higher than the rear like most lowering springs for our cars. It was pretty even.

[WhiteSpecV]

You guys should take a ride in a Spec V. It has the stiffest spring rates available from Nissan in a Sentra (or Maxima, or Altima, and even on par with the Z, though the handling will never compete with a Z).

Anyway, the rates are 300lb/in for the front and 375 lb/in for the rear. Most spec owners would rather have softer springs and better struts, but oh well...

Don't go stiffer than you absolutely need. It's a trade off you may not want.

-Joe-

[Site]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

40 millimeter = 1.57 inch

I may try the B&Gs if I will be able to return them if I'm not satisfied. I'll check into it.

[RCracer]

I have the euro versions of the H&R's with Koni specials (reds) and can totally aggree with Jim about being happy with them.
H&R's with Konis make a great combination.
It will be interesting to see how they cope when I get the B20a in.

[marc49]

hey, jim, what is the rates for eibach's pro kit springs?

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by marc49
hey, jim, what is the rates for eibach's pro kit springs?

front 308 to742 rear97 to 200

Which reminds me I need to call them so I can know how to rate them with the same system that the other makers use, to have true comparison. Pretty sure the the numbers mean this,
308='s no weight on the spring. 742='s fully compressed.
which leads me to believe that the fronts are not progresive.

I wonder if half way between them is the figure I want.
Which would mean front 525 rear 149 But I REALLY doubt that, least in the front. I'll really try and call eibach tommarow. I always enjoy talking to them, good people.

[87AccordsterLx]

any idea about the sprint 2.25 in ???

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLx
any idea about the sprint 2.25 in ???

I've got the same problem with the sprints as the prokits, the spring rates are not listed in terms of one rate for the front or rear.
front 350 to 425 rear 225 to 300

[87AccordsterLx]

hmm... damn if its 425 then Im really going to need some high quailty seat cushions..... even 350 sounds pretty rough doesnt it?? How harsh do you think the sprints will ride with koni's all around or maybe koni's and tokicos in the rear...???

[jlaccord89lxi]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

On another the note, I noticed that the b&gs dont have the usual front end higher than the rear like most lowering springs for our cars. It was pretty even.

for future conversion reference... 1" = 2.54cm = 25.4mm (basically: 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters) i grew up with metric but was an assistant carpenter for 4 summers so i know the conversions. Its Canadian

[KaMiKaZeE]

Any idea of how the handling balance with the Sprints is affected and whether they are more or less stiff than the Suspen. Techs?

Does anyone have the sprints? How do they ride and handle? Do you bottom out on speedbumps? Any info is appreciated as I am thinking of the sprints for my car.

[87AccordsterLx]

same here.. I bought them but I havent saved up enough to get the Koni's yet so they're just sitting in the garage...

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by KaMiKaZeE
Any idea of how the handling balance with the Sprints is affected and whether they are more or less stiff than the Suspen. Techs?

Does anyone have the sprints? How do they ride and handle? Do you bottom out on speedbumps? Any info is appreciated as I am thinking of the sprints for my car.

I really do advise some caution with any answer you might get. I think that the majority of sprint owners were chasing appearance allot more than handling or how the car rode and drove. Just my observation, anyone can freely disagree, not a problem.

While being on the same subject, since you mention handling. I'd be inclined to like the extra 1/4" of suspension travel with the S/T springs and they are a smidge stiffer as well. Just my 2 cents.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Ok I updated the very first page with all the info. I spoke to Eibach and I've added the prokit information and the sprint information. The chart no show's how much stiffer or (gulp) softer than stock those springs are.

[KaMiKaZeE]

Thanks for the info Jim. You are a valuable asset here. I think I am gonna go with the Suspension Techs.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by KaMiKaZeE
Thanks for the info Jim. You are a valuable asset here. I think I am gonna go with the Suspension Techs.

Thanks, just trying to help out.

[AZmike]

Jim, could you list the drop associated with each spring set and whether they are linear or progressive (stock too).

Also, is there any news on running the 1st generation Integra AGXs?

Thanks

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 89LXi4dr
Jim, could you list the drop associated with each spring set and whether they are linear or progressive (stock too).

Also, is there any news on running the 1st generation Integra AGXs?

Thanks

Ok I went back and edited the original post and added in the drop amounts. The tokico, eibach sportline, suspension techniques 2" speed tech springs have front linear, rear progressive springs. I'm not sure about the fronts on the B&G's and progress groups springs. The H&R's/Neuspeeds and Eibach prokits, ans suspension techniques 1" drop springs are progressive front and rear. The ground-controls and drop zone coilovers are linear front and rear.

On the 2nd & 3rd gen struts (not 1st gen teg) markmdz89hatch had a conversation with koni about possibly using them on his accord. Based on the conversation, it doesn't look possible. But I'm not totally writting them off. When I can find a 88-89 civic or 90-93 teg at the junk yard I'm going to pull a 1 each front and rear strut/spring assemblies. Plus I'm going to snag a pinch fork as well for the front. I'll compair them with my eyes and on the car. Have know idea when I might be able to get around to that.

[BMS]

If you want to try the H&R springs, but find that they are not stiff enough you can always opt for a set of polyeurothane bushings. A set for all four corners is usually less than 30$, and they give you a stiffer ride with more steering response.

[anchovies]

Originally posted by BMS
A set for all four corners is usually less than 30$, and they give you a stiffer ride with more steering response.

If you can find any, let us know.