PROJECT , TURBO ( bobafett )

[bobafett]

which parts from this thread could be helpful in my turbo project. either by increasing performance, or by being a part i could modify sooner, thereby decreasing downtime?

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?postid=63701

i dunno if the higher compression pistons are smart, since turbo apps, ussually want lower comp ratios. i figured the cam would be good. the heads/ the intake manifold/ the oil pan. if there is anything else there that would be smart to buy, let me know please!

[Sean]

i would suggest sticking with stock compresion. as for cam and other stuff no need. the turbo really makes the head flow like gangbusters. i would simply upgrade and beef up whats already there. think

forged pistons ( wiseco doe these for a very decent price)
main bearing studs ( arp has got loose studs not a kit)
head studs ( yet again arp loose studs )
stainless exhuast valve ( manely should be good for these)

as for everything else leave it alone. dont touch the cam it works really well with the turbo. i wouldnt port the head. as for the intake manifold dont sweat it as long if you already have the 86-8style intake. if not switch it out when you chnage the engine managemnet system. i am building all hardware on the 86-87 intakes. they are easier to work with. and are actually better sutied for high rpm apllications. just beef to motor up dont go looking for HP thats what the turbo is for.

[jteuton]

Ok Funstick.....I want the lowdown on how to make this turbo work while only spending pennies on ecu. I don't want expensive software and all this Haltech BS that costs an arm and a leg. The Two things I'm worried about. 1.) Map sensor......where is it? how can it be fooled during boost......I've heard of easy check valves can you explain what these are and what they do.....I've also heard of little cheater circuit cards that fool it into not seeing boost......what happens if I don't do nothing with it and it does see the boost?....and second the ignition timing. Is the boost timing master by msd the best bet.....and if so can it work standalone or does it have to have one of them 6a, 7a setups and if so which one?....Thanks for the help

[gr3k0sLaV]

Jteuton as I POSted earlier, there is either the use of trick valves which bleed pressure off the vac line which goes from the manifold to the MAP sensro. Or you can use a trick circuit as i posted a link to earlier.

MSD BTM is what u should use.

[jteuton]

Ok can the MSD BTM work with my stock ignition system (Accel Coil) and where does this check valve go (where is the map sensor)?

[bobafett]

thanks for the advice funstick.

i just wanted to make sure that that stuff wouldnt be worth having to fix up and put in there..
right now i have the 86 intake manifold (obviously ) its the single runner, or whatever that means.

i know what you mean about not worrying about HP, just beefing up the engine it would be nice just to turn up the boost a little when i want more power. but do you think i will be safe with 3-5psi on stock internals? also with this new turbo endevour i was thinking of going to 2.5-3.0 exhaust, though i would prolly just stick with 2.5.... any opinions on that?

i ALSO have another question about possible future upgrades.
i know i am not going to break any records with a t25, but if i were to upgrade to a bigger/better turbo, would be common dsm turbos bolt right onto the place we made, it will it mean a lot more custom work? i am talking about maybe a 14b, or a 16g.

[Sean]

hmm using a bigger turbo than what you build the system for is tougher.im working with the chrysler T3 found ont eh k car and what not. it flows plenty of air. it can run down at low boost and the spool up time is quiet quick,you can run upto 8-9psi of boost with stock internals as long as you have the spark and fuel management in place. ill have pics of the finished harness soon enough.and i have a free ware rom editor thatll work fine.

[bobafett]

so my idea is still fine, even if i go with a t25? your just messing with a differnet turbo?

i want a small and fast turbo mainly... so how expensive of engine management stuff would i need to run like 9 psi? would be talking haltech, or still the msd BTM type setup?

[Sean]

well if you can hang on for a month i can send you a 1227749 gm ecm setup for considerably less and by then i should have it ready to be a drop in.ill have the calibrations ready. also burning your own proms could always lead to more money down the road as when your doing your own people will ask you to do theres.i am building all of the calibrtations for 15 psi of boost using chrylser 32lb per hr injectors.i could include these for a small fee.

[bobafett]

ok well if you are tuning this prom for 15psi then will it still work well in my car with significantly less psi?

also would these chrysler injectors work in my car without too much trouble. as for waiting a month, i am in no rush with this project, i am mainly in the research phase right now. i want to have 110% of the details worked out before i start buying things.

and if i bought this unit from u, would it work with my t25 setup running low boost. also would it be "tunable" or would it be your set vaules.

also can i run any sort of engine management software with a pda, or do i need a whole laptop setup?

[Sean]

well this particular ecm uses EPROMS and there is software out there that can edit the data stored on it. IE fuel tables spark tables etc etc etc. my plan is to have the whole caliration dialed for the accord. i cannot forsee any issue with runnign it at lower boost levels at all simply becuase i still have to calibrate it for the lower flow levels.untiit reachs 15psi. the turbo make doesnt matter so much. it still take x amount of air to reach a given level of boost regardless of turbo size. do you follow this one ?? as for scanning if you have no need to programm your own proms and would be happy using a maximum of 15 psi then i should be able to help you with a one time burn.as for scanning and data logging an older laptop that runs win 95 should be fine. i could go ahead and point you to all the info you need to do this yourself. thats if you chose to. its not to hard as long as you have a good grip on how to look at fuel needs and spark timing. either way let me know what you want to do i'll be glad to help you get going.

[bobafett]

well i am still enclear at how "heavy duty" that i should, will need to, or could go.

you know my current plan, which is super low levels of boost, getting away with a cheap turbo setup, basically just to turbo the car. before i go turbo i need to make ULTRA sure i wont blow anything up. i NEED to get the car around everyday

once i have that low boost setup i will start to upgrade internals etc to run more boost. if at any point i ever need more than 15psi, i am sure the money spent would be nothing in comparison to buying another eprom chip from you! hehe...

yeah i understand the X air needs X fuel no matter which turbo, and also that it will need to run properly up until 15psi as well, so that it should work with my lower boost levels too.

from the turbo platform i am starting with, will i need a laptop based fuel management system? or can i get away with just the BTM and better coil?

i would like all the help you are willing to give though, since i am quite new to turbos and most car stuff in general!

when you say scanning, what are you referring to? i somewhat understand datalogging, and i know that can be done with a PDA, could the fuel management run from a PDA as well, or would it need more power?

also would your chip just splice right it? or will i need anything special to use it?

would you mind if we started a list of stuff for me to do "now" and then a list of smart things to do once the car is running turbo'ed? its sort of reduntant since there is already FAQ stuff, but this turbo project is a whole different ball game.

i guess all i am sure about it:
1.turbo
2.bov
3.MSD BTM
4.blaster or accel coil
5.tap oil feed and return lines into oil pan.
6.custom exhaust manifold
7.all the guages (volt/AF/pyro/boost/oilPSI)
8.turbo timer
9.boost controller

[Sean]

ooh im working on an entire GM based replacemnt system. it uses a gm turbo sunbird ecm also found in the syclone, typhoon. its already programmed for boost. there is no reporgramming or tunning form a laptop. the laptop would allow you to see the data show you how and where to make changes to it as well as what may be wrong with the ecm or wiring or sensors. as for calibrating the system you should never need to as long as you stay below 15psi. right now i am trying to find source for a few things. so when i get that worked out ill let you know. i can turn things up in quanties of 1-2 which is about all anyone here would ever need.

should the need ever arise for you to tune the systems alter fuel maps or what ever you will need a eprom programmer to make further changes on your own.i would suggest you get the hardwrae form me with a good solid base tune for 15 psi. then get tunnign tools and keep going on your own. as i siad before i have some very nice rom editing software that prettystriaght forward and easy to use. also the gm ecm has a built in fuel correction routine that makes tunngin pretty easy. well get into that later.

[bobafett]

ok so if i get this chip, will i NOT need the BTM and other engine management stuff?

and what price range are we talking here?

[AccordEpicenter]

can you get away with running the stock ecu when you run like 15 psi if you get huge injectors and an adjustable fuel press regulator and fuel rail with ignition upgrades and retard ignition, assuming the rest of the engine is built up good?

[Sean]

no the stock distributor wont retard timing. by the time you bought all the shit to manage the boost i could have saved you a fourtune.

[AccordEpicenter]

well yea but to run boost you have to retard it anyways, why not retard the entire distributor a few degrees to dial in what you need? Sounds a hella lot easier than modding the honda distributor with gm guts imo... What do u think. I mean couldnt you just dial in what you need with the stock stuff, like retarding the current distributor and getting monster injectors and stuff?

[Sean]

ask justin 88turboaccord how well that setupo runs.

[PhydeauX]

Besides, you don't want the timing retarded when the motor is not under boost. (90% of the time its running if you daily drive it).

andy

[AccordEpicenter]

well i dunno, i was thinking about a turbo with a ton of boost (like 14-15 psi) so when would the motor not be under boost, at idle? Besides its safer on the engine

[bobafett]

no you wouldnt be at boost at idle.. if you were, your turbo would overheat in a hearbeat... you basically only get boost when you stomp on the gas and and spools while the rpms climb.

form what i understand, when you take your foot off the gas you lose all boost, via the wastegate or blowoff valve, or something along those lines.. this happens so that excess exhuast is not spinning the turbo when it shouldnt be.

*thats just what i would guess. i have never driven a turbo car, andi do not claim to be an expert!

[NXRacer]

AAARGH. This thread has sooo much info that its all hard to take in. You guys quit posting to the AWESOME thread for some reason. What ever happend to the project turbo? I was thinking about going b20a conversion, but after trying to get one and comming up pretty much empty handed I'm seriously thinking about going turbo. T03 and T04 turbos are a dime a dozen (almost) on ebay and my friend bought one and its in great condition. I have a turbo at home that was off a VW of some sort and i might have it rebuilt to fit my car. I'm not sure what size it is, but its pretty big. Anyway, I WANT MORE INFO. I'm seriously planning on doing this and when i get some money together (should be the first of july) i'm gonna rip my motor out and build the internals to handle a good amount of PSI (up to at least 15 lbs or so). I'm been looking all over this forum and poeple mention things, but nobody seems to have as much information together as this thread. I'm gonna keep researching this and see what i can come up with.

I have a friend who owns a machine shop and he's willing to do a lot of work for me and i want to get my head port and polished, but i dont know the specs on what to do. Is there a basic job that most machine shops do? He said with his machinery, he can do a full 3d mapping of the head and totally rework it to the 1/1000th of an inch. If i do decide to get a turbo, would the b16 intake be a good idea for this project? I could get a full fuel rail and injectors for it and a bigger TB. There are so many options out there i dont know what would be best for hooking up the turbo to.

Thanks for all the great info so far and KEEP THE INFO FLOWIN FOLKS.

Oh yeah, hows the ECU coming along??

[BootMachine]

Thats it??? Where is the rest of the info? This thread was answering ALL my questions and then it ended!

oh man. Turbo is so close yet so far away! The only piece of the puzzle I need is the Ignition Control (HOW, WITH WHAT?) and fuel control (HOW? WITH WHAT?)

What is an acurate way of measuring the AF mix? Exhaust temp ?

[Sean]

look into my ecm kit. does both and you can reprogram it yourself. although ive programmed it to 15psi.

[bobafett]

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/i...threadid=14375

im itchin for a fmic to get my project off the ground....