Timing is way off!!!

[89accordlxi]

Well, I finally got around to checking my timing for the first time in the 4 yrs that I've had the car. The timing was so far off it's not even funny.
I unplugged the hoses going to the vacuum advanced and plugged them like it says to. Then I checked the timing with a light. The shop manual says that the white mark on the flywheel should line up with the pointer. Mine wasn't even close. It was probably an inch or more above the pointer that I could barely see it because it was so far up. Then I plugged the vacuum hoses back in and the red line on the flywheel was lined up with the pointer, so I know the vacuum advance is working.
So my question is, how do I fix the timing. Is it possible that the timing belt might have slipped a littel in the 4 years that I have had it. Or maybe it has stretched and is getting loose. Could it be anything else besides the belt that is affecting the timing.. I just replaced my distributer so I'm pretty sure it is good. Looks like it might just be time to replace the belt. Damn...I've heard that it is a fairly complicated task.

Thanks for reading and any suggestions would be appreciated.

Peaceout..

[ACCORD EX]

do you hear a pining noise while accelerating !
adjusting the time is done by turning the distributer ( ignition timing )

MIKE

[89accordlxi]

Yeah, I turned the distributor as far as I could CW and that brought the mark down a little. So I'm thinking it has to be something else. I assume that since I retarded the distributor as far as it can go and the mark is still above the pointer that I was probably running way advanced, but I never seemed to have any pinging. However, that could probably explain my bad gas mileage that I have recently been experiencing.. If the distributor doesn't correct the timing, then it must be the belt, right?????? Or what else could it be??

Peace.

[ACCORD EX]

yeah i guess it's the belt and it also could cause bad gas milage ! and overheating ! that's why you don't hear pinging because it got nothing to do with ignition timing !

MIKE

[DanG86LX]

Ur vacuum advance is working but the breaker plate(the one that is rotated by vacuum advance diaphragm) might be sticky.
Or the diaphragm spring is too weak;
Or diaphragm does not hold vacuum;
Basically the vacuum advance diaphragm displacement is too short. Where did you get this new distributor from? Is it rebuilt?
BTW with vacuum lines removed, u should see 4* advance from T mark (or white mark).

[89accordlxi]

No, the distributor is not rebuilt. I got it from the junk yard with 140k miles on it. Better than mine which had over 200k on it and red dust in the cap..
So what do you suggest i do, DanG? How do I lengthen the advance diaphram displacement if it is too short? Are you suggesting this has nothing to do with timing belt, or just saying that this could also be the problem along with the timing belt?

Keep the suggestions coming folks. I don't want to mess with the timing belt if I don't have to.

I'm out....

[ACCORD EX]

i got an idea for you to make sure your timing belt is ok !
remove the upper timing belt cover ( 2 X 10mm bolts) so easy to remove ! then turn the cam gear until you place the UP word in the 12 oclock position and both marks at the side are at 3 , 9 oclock position , using a flash light look at the hole in the tranny and see if it's lined up ( the marks ) ! if not reinstall the timing belt if yes so you better look for something else !


good luck

MIKE

[DanG86LX]

I agree with ACCORD EX test. But if it turns out ok, the problem could be in the distributor.
Since u have two of them now, take one apart and clean it. Most likely the breaker plate is sticky. Or try replacing vacuum advance diaphragm (u cannot repair that). Make sure it holds vacuum on the two ports.
I think FI timing is 15*, correct me if I'm wrong. Is not 24* like on MT carb, cause then is a different story, mixing up distributors..

[dj99]

Just to make things a bit more fuzzy...

I looked at a new vacuum advance at the honda dealer, and its arm into the distributor was threaded onto the part that goes into the advance. I think it's adjustable. I don't know if it is this way on mine, because I'm not taking it apart until it breaks, but you can check yours out.

[POS carb]

get the white mark lined up and then fuck with the advance.

[dj99]

Originally posted by POS carb
get the white mark lined up and then fuck with the advance.

[89accordlxi]

Hey thanks all. Very good suggestion Mike. I will do it this weekend and see what happens.

I just love this forum ***tear runs down cheek***

I let keep y'all posted on what I fine.

Later..

[ACCORD EX]

good luck ! :Super:

MIKE

[rocky2]

YOU SHOULD AT LEAST CHECK CONDITION OF TIMING BELT!!!!Take off top cover and look at it with coil wire off.then turn with starter very little at a time. If it looks frayed or stringy, man do the belt. HONDA"S draw back is tb = valve bender

[carotman]

I just replaced my distributer so I'm pretty sure it is good

Well, you screwed up the timing when you replaced it...

1+1 =2

[DanG86LX]

what's wrong with trying ur old distributor. Hit it with some W40 1st, make sure breaker plate is free..

[89accordlxi]

My old distributor had red dust in it. I read somewhere that when that happens the distributer coils are toast. I was experiencing the same timing problem even with the old distributor. So now that I have replaced it, it has to be something else. Like I said before, I will check this weekend that the marks are in the correct position and condition of belt as well..

I'll keep y'all posted on what I find..

thanks,

Peace....

[carotman]

the red dust actually means the bearing is going away.

Do you still have the original engine in the car????

[89accordlxi]

Yes, as far as I know, it is the original engine..

[89accordlxi]

Ok, the results are in. As you can see from the pic, everything seems to be lined up correctly. The up indicator on the cam gear is up, and although you can't see them in the pic, I assure that the marks on the gear are lined up with the surface of the head. And the T indicator on the flywheel is close enough to lining up with the pointer. Belt also seems to be in good condition. http://www.geocities.com/tvouthilak/images/timing.jpg
...Copy and paste link into address bar..

So now that that has been determined, the issue points back toward the distributor are ignition system that is causing the timing to be off. There are also some 5's on the flywheel on either side of the T indicator. What are those for? When I tested the timing with timing light, the pointer was on the 5 below the T indicator. Does that mean the timing is off 5* to the retard side or 5* to the advanced side? I also have the distributor retarded as far as it will go during that test..

Is it the distributor, coil, bad wires, bad vacuum advance that could be causing this incorrect timing?

I don't really know how to rebuilt a distributor but am willing if some one can explain what to do..

More help and suggestions please...

Thanks. Peace out

[Dutchboy]

Um there is the up mark and the little notches on the other side of the cam gear also .....so you can line up the notches to match the block....just because it looks like it all lined up to you it may be off a tooth still....(the notches are hard to see)

so you got to make sure that it is in the right possition...the white pointer may be a little bit out when the cam marks line up but that will be normal since a little bit of movement moves the flywheel. BUt if the cam is probably aligned and the white mark is way off then its off a tooth.

And when you do timing make sure you plug the hoses going to the advance/retard other wise it wont be properly done.



BEn

[DanG86LX]

Now that i counted haw many teeth are on cam wheel = 36 , that means if u install the belt displaced by one tooth = 10* at cam shaft = 20* at crank shaft which is way too much...

"When I tested the timing with timing light, the pointer was on the 5 below the T indicator. Does that mean the timing is off 5* to the retard side..
Yes, retard side.