Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 84

Thread: Water vapor injection project

  1. #26
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post

    Be careful with that. Speaking from personal experience with these cars, pinging can be very hard to hear. Mine was pinging for weeks before I finally heard it while passing under a narrow bridge.
    Is that due to to the cast iron block?
    Last edited by Legend_master; 01-18-2013 at 01:04 AM. Reason: spelling
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)




  2. #27

    Vanilla Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Vehicle
    1999 Penalty Box
    Location
    Palatka, Florida, United States
    Posts
    8,932

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master View Post
    Is that due to to the case iron block?
    Heavy block, lots of space between the engine and the firewall, and a lot more sound deadening than you'd expect make it hard to hear in these cars. They are pretty good at masking engine sounds.

    If I remember correctly, you make the most power when you are using as much water and as little fuel as possible for a complete burn. With a properly tuned WI setup, you can run a fairly good increase in ignition timing, too. Water is one of the best, if not the best, knock inhibitors you can use. It keeps everything super clean, too. Since you're installing the system on an engine that's got some miles on it, you're going to notice it running better in a few months. That's because you're steam cleaning your engine pretty much all of the time. A blown head gasket does the same for chambers. If you've ever taken one apart that had coolant leaking in, you'd see the difference between the cylinders with the leak and without, because the ones with the leak have far less, if any, deposits left.

    I wouldn't tune it to kick on WI when you ping, I'd use ignition retard for that, as you can adjust that faster than you can adjust water delivery. You want to make that change as soon as you detect it, not a few seconds like I'd expect your venturi system to take.

    Are you injecting vapor at the manifold, or is it still liquid at that point? I can't wrap my head around why it wouldn't be a gas and not a fluid under your conditions.
    Last edited by Vanilla Sky; 01-18-2013 at 12:29 AM.

  3. #28
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    If this really improved gas mileage, I'd say build a rain scoop to collect any extra water you need. Could actually be a positive energy source.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  4. #29

    Vanilla Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Vehicle
    1999 Penalty Box
    Location
    Palatka, Florida, United States
    Posts
    8,932

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    You really want water that's cleaner than rain water. Rain is nasty in a city, or anywhere there's a lot of shit floating in the air.

  5. #30
    3Geez Veteran gfrg88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Vehicle
    1986 Honda Prelude 2.0Si-T
    Location
    A Mile High.
    Posts
    4,790

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Windshield washer fluid
    -Gio
    .
    .
    My E85 Turbo Build
    .
    .
    5280FEST
    .
    .

  6. #31

    Vanilla Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Vehicle
    1999 Penalty Box
    Location
    Palatka, Florida, United States
    Posts
    8,932

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Distilled water is the best thing to use if staying with h2o injection.

  7. #32
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Time for an update.

    I am using straigh drinking water and its being sucked liquid through the canister's port. This port pulls vacuum between 1500 and 3500 RPM only.
    The heaters in the base of the TBI should be able to turn it in vapor before it gets to the inlet manifold.

    I reduced the fuel table in about 10% until I saw the O2 signal flat at 0 volts. Didn't notice any difference in temp with or without water, but I'm not risking the engine too much. So my runs w/o water aren't too long just in case.

    Didn't notice any fuel economy improvement yet. My measured Used Fuel still around .500 and .600 gallons over 10.5 miles, depening mainly in the weather.

    I need to do the water injection in the exhaust manifold experiment and also the coil around the exhaust to vaporize the water while being sucked by the engine.

    I am looking for extra 10 MPG at least. If I see something promising then I will put all the electronics required for an accurate control. But will not for 3 or 4 MPG.


    Power is nothing without control

  8. #33
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    I'm going to take my car for a 1000 miles trip this weekend.

    I will not turn the WI on, I will be more concerned with a suspension failure than fuel economy.
    Right now I am checking everything underneath the car. I recently changed the main front bearings and inspected the ball joints.
    After 2 years owning the car, this is the first time I am going to run it for more than 40 MI in the same day. Plan to take some pics of the car during the trip. Hope everything goes well!


    Power is nothing without control

  9. #34
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    During my research for fuel economy things I found a site where they only talk about ways to improve FE. Its called gassavers. As far as I have read, they are not very technical guys, they talk more like putting magnets in the fuel line, be easy with the car, even turning the car off when in downhill (haha).

    To make a long story short, if I want radical fuel savings, I need to do radical things. Keeping the tires inflated to spec will help but in the order of +1 MPG (Which I will loose in a single hard acceleration).
    So, I will be more aggressive in this water injection for fuel economy project. I removed 10% of the fuel injected last time with no results. Well, I plan to remove 20, 30 40 % until the car can't longer keep the speed up and then just put a little bit more.

    During my 1k trip there was a very long uphill section of the road where my car raised the coolant temperature to 95 C. (the average is 90 C) and the engine didn't get destroyed... so I learned that I can run with little overheat and little knocking for some time and still be safe.

    I bought the fuel filter of our FI cars, the one in a metal case, I will use it to heat the fuel up and convert the injected water into injected vapor using the coolant lines.

    Weather has been better here so I feel like I can work in the car again.


    Power is nothing without control

  10. #35

    Dr_Snooz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX-i
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    10,638

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Did you realize any fuel savings?
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


    1989 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe, 240k miles, MT swap, rear disc swap

    Shop manual downloads available here: CLICK TO VIEW

  11. #36
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Found something that might interest you. It's a DIY for a radio shack knock light.

    DIY Knock light (radio shack parts) - Miata Turbo Forum - Turbo Kitten is watching you test compression.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  12. #37
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Thanks for the link of the circuit. Its certainly easy to build. I am going to have knocking problems when the summer comes per sure. I have elevated the temperature of the fuel and air to accomplish 23 MPG during this winter.

    But, I would like to drop the water injection project for some time and start calling this as "Hydrocarbon Cracking System" Project, or simply HCS.

    I've been reading about this system that is very popular in Indonesia. It heats some fuel vapors up to 300-400 degrees F using the exhaust manifold, so the carbon and hydrogen atoms of the fuel molecule (C14H18) get separated, or cracked. Then mixed with the sprayed fuel of the injector, gives a better burn rate in the combustion chamber

    Another long story short, I already implemented the system in my car, and jumped from 23 MPG to 35 MPG.

    There are a lot of things in this system to be fine-tuned at this time, my first finding was that the fuel savings are weather-dependent.
    If it is raining you might have zero gains, because the system needs heat. And the heat is dissipated away with the water getting in contact with the exhaust tube.
    But in the hottest (50 F) and driest days of winter, I got 35 MPG. I can't wait to see the FE gains in summer time.

    As usual, I have hundreds of pics and datalogs to probe what I have just said. If you guys allow me I'll be putting sketches, pics of my own setup and results very soon.


    Power is nothing without control

  13. #38
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    Did you realize any fuel savings?
    Not savings with plain water, but if we replace the water with standard fuel, and then heat the vapors coming out of the stored fuel... There are real fuel savings as you will see in my next posts.


    Power is nothing without control

  14. #39
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    I might start sounding like a scam, but not, I am the same Buzo as always.

    Here is a quick pic of the system. It says carburetor but it can be attached to any -venturi vacuum source- preferably.



    Pics of my install are in that same flickr account, if you are interested.


    Power is nothing without control

  15. #40
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    This pic is worth to be posted here. Its was from my drive from work to home a few days ago.
    The inclined white lines are the used fuel as calculated by the computer.
    I compared the first day I used the HCS in my car vs another log from the day before.
    By looking at the RPM you can say the speed was similar in both logs. But regardless, not for being easy with the pedal will save you 7 MPG, no way.
    I have another chart pretty similar, but I used even less fuel for a gain of +12 MPG (35 MPG total).



    Power is nothing without control

  16. #41
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzo View Post
    I might start sounding like a scam, but not, I am the same Buzo as always.

    Here is a quick pic of the system. It says carburetor but it can be attached to any -venturi vacuum source- preferably.



    Pics of my install are in that same flickr account, if you are interested.
    Looks very similar to the Evap system in the LXi model. I believe the charchoal canister on the firewall would be the catalyst. I've always wondered about heating the fuel tank, but it seems like building a giant bomb lol.
    Last edited by Legend_master; 02-21-2013 at 03:38 PM.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  17. #42
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Sorry about the quality of the pic, but you get the idea.

    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  18. #43

    Dr_Snooz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX-i
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    10,638

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Sorry, I'm a little confused. You're saying that you didn't really get the gains you were seeking with vaporization or water injection, but HCS provided big gains immediately? HCS, as you describe it, sounds a little like GEET, but I'll do some more reading before I say for sure.

    So how much more difficult would this project be if you didn't have the Megasquirt controller? OMG! I'm starting to think that Megasquirt, EFI and EDIS are simply mandatory on these cars. My car stopped being numbers matching when I did the MT swap, so there isn't a lot of reason for me not to go whole hog with a tuneable controller and crank-fired ignition. I thought that was only for hot-rodders, but I'm starting to see the light.
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


    1989 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe, 240k miles, MT swap, rear disc swap

    Shop manual downloads available here: CLICK TO VIEW

  19. #44

    Dr_Snooz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX-i
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    10,638

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    I'm reading now and have some questions. Are you using a venturi vacuum source and if so, which one? Are you tweaking the fuel map at all or is it happening magically on its own? Are you worried about burning up a cat? Are you still piping in hot air? Are you still using any water injection?

    I'm very interested in doing this. Are you able to post pics of your setup in this thread? That would be awesome. I don't know how to look up your stuff on Flickr.

    Thanks for doing all the research that I'm not able to.
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


    1989 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe, 240k miles, MT swap, rear disc swap

    Shop manual downloads available here: CLICK TO VIEW

  20. #45
    Accord of the Year - 2007

    Legend_master's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Vehicle
    1988 Honda Accord, CRV B20 swap.
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    I'm reading now and have some questions. Are you using a venturi vacuum source and if so, which one? Are you tweaking the fuel map at all or is it happening magically on its own? Are you worried about burning up a cat? Are you still piping in hot air? Are you still using any water injection?

    I'm very interested in doing this. Are you able to post pics of your setup in this thread? That would be awesome. I don't know how to look up your stuff on Flickr.

    Thanks for doing all the research that I'm not able to.
    If you were able to get the evap system to produce more vapors (generally only produces on a hot summer day). I would think the EFI system would start to lean the liquid fuel mixture from the injectors. Would probably work better with an obd1 setup.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  21. #46
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    I'm reading now and have some questions. Are you using a venturi vacuum source and if so, which one? Are you tweaking the fuel map at all or is it happening magically on its own? Are you worried about burning up a cat? Are you still piping in hot air? Are you still using any water injection?

    I'm very interested in doing this. Are you able to post pics of your setup in this thread? That would be awesome. I don't know how to look up your stuff on Flickr.

    Thanks for doing all the research that I'm not able to.
    Thanks to Leyend Master for posting that pic, because the venturi port I am using is the one that merges with the throttle plate. Note that this is not manifold vacuum, it generates vacuum only when the pedal is pressed.

    It is happening automatically. I haven't touch the fuel map at all. Indonesian guys are using it in carbed cars and stock EFI, even in diesel engines with similar results.

    I don't see any increase in the coolant temp. So no, no worried about my cat converter.

    Yes, hot air is still ON, also I am heating the fuel up to coolant temp using a 1/2" copper tube wrapped around the fuel filter. (haven't uploaded pics of that one)

    Whater injection is OFF.


    Power is nothing without control

  22. #47
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master View Post
    Sorry about the quality of the pic, but you get the idea.

    More or less... There is one thing missing: the catalyzer. We are also bubbling fresh air to the small tank full of gasoline, so the vapors are generated and immediately "cracked" and used by the engine.


    Power is nothing without control

  23. #48
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    This is how the setup in one of our FI's car would look like:

    We'll talk about the catalyzer later, but don't worry, its something you can get at any hardware store.



    Any more questions?


    Power is nothing without control

  24. #49
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    Here is my setup.

    1 commercial aluminum can. I think mine is 1/2 liter (1/8 gallon) but there should be other sizes.
    Some hoses 1/4" OD, 1/4" ID, clamps, barbbed connectors, some 3 ft of 1/4" copper line.
    Not my best pic but you should get the idea



    Power is nothing without control

  25. #50
    LXi User Buzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Vehicle
    88 Honda Accord EX - Single Port EFI, 4 doors Aut.
    Location
    North of Mexico
    Posts
    836

    Re: Water vapor injection project

    And here is the catalyst or catalizer



    Power is nothing without control

Similar Threads

  1. Water injection?Vapour?
    By dat in forum Carburetor Tech
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-25-2007, 07:34 PM
  2. Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System
    By dews89blkaccord in forum Performance
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-30-2006, 06:59 PM
  3. alcohol/water injection for carb... would this work?
    By slow2point0 in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-08-2006, 12:07 AM
  4. Anybody Tried Water / Methanol injection ?
    By jteuton in forum Performance
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 03-12-2006, 09:37 AM
  5. Vapor Lock?
    By 87DXHatch in forum 3geez Accords
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-12-2002, 09:22 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
This website uses cookies
We use cookies to store session information to facilitate remembering your login information, to allow you to save website preferences, to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.
     
Links monetized by VigLink