I said I would get the info for bisimoto for valves. Here you go. Next step group buy with a price drop????
" I just received word from our manufacture and they do offer a heavy duty stainless steel valve set for the A20a powerplant. Pricing for this 12 valve powerplant is only $199.99."
has anyone had any issues with the factory valves themselves failing? I'm asking because Melling makes both of them, one of the few aftermarket companies I would trust, now the valve springs from Bisi are one thing what about retainers? I know the 90 lude uses the same retainers, anyone know of a quality aftermarket one?
I have not heard of the stock one failing. I have however bent a couple in a D series so I'm planning for the worse. Also if I'm gonna open up the head for a cam and springs I may as well do it all. I have not seen anything on retainers but I sound like you can run 1mm over on stock retainers and guides.
I was wondering because I sourced the new valves from melling, the springs from bisimoto, possibly the seats and guides, and rocker arms from vintage parts, but I cant find the retainers, I know they list the retainers as being up to the 90 lude, I cant remember what came in there, but if I can source retainers for it, then they match the retainers for the third generations, now when I say retainers I mean valve keepers, some people call them retainers,some call them keepers, the piece the spring sits in is also a retainer. I'll say keeper for the sake of the post, thats one part that is highly stressed, and after a couple of hundred thousand miles, should be replaced,Originally Posted by obd0driver
the 90 lude would have been running a B20XX but is one of the b20 you cant find stuff for.
Rock auto lists valves and keepers. The keepers appear to be used by a few other makes as well.
I wonder who makes the valves for Bisi? There can't be that many mfgr's that offer valves for the A20.
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it's probably melling, there are a lot of part interchange numbers for the valves they make for the A20, I saw the rock auto keepers but was really leery of who makes them, when I get this settlement all said and done, I plan to put some cash in a head for the hatch, and I dont want to use cheap no name keepers for sure
I'm not sure who makes them at this point. I am wait on a email to get the specs and all that plus info for a group buy maybe
I hope it's a reputable maker, the only reason I like the melling stuff is reputation, they lso make valves for a lot of OEM manufacturers, so they have a lot of experience
like I said on the facebook forum... Getting 1mm overside at least on the exhaust side would be stellar... other than that, unless you need vavles (200$) really is a pretty decent deal for SS valves, the stock ones work just fine... I'd spend double the original price to get valves that are larger intake and exhaust and to be made out of SS.
that would require different cut seats correct? or are you going to need larger bores machined for the seats for the larger valves? I may end up running stock replacement, the melling made valves are around 11-15 bucks each per intake, and around 20 each for exhaust, I plan on running higher compression, but I'm not going to the extreme
SI also makes stock replacement valves for the A20. Not sure how much they cost. A few years ago I had them make some custom oversize valves for an A20 and they were about $34/valve. To use larger valves the seats have to be cut wider. That project is on the perpetual back burner but I will get to it some day.
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I can only hope that we can get over size one. ill email them 2morrow to see what they have to say.
Ok guy I got a good and bad news.
The heavy duty replacement A20 valves are standard sized with steel for intake and stainless steel for exhaust.
However that's deal accept my offer for a group buy with a minimum of 5 at $150 a piece (plus shipping**)
**Still working that out
Standard size eh? Are they lighter, or reshaped in some way? Otherwise I'm not seeing the point.
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This.
Ok guys just got off the phone with them and they told me they are basically a harder and heavy duty style replacement. Everything would be about same as stock but take high revs and boost better.
Our valves aren't a weak link in any way, other than being too small. This looks like another case of Bisi not really knowing what goes on in an engine.
your right they dont know what go's a the A20 however they do make them they are getting them from a 3rd party. They also it would cost $500 to do the R&D to have custom one made. I think its a great place to start showing that people are willing and want these part's.
I also look in a GB for them at $165.00 shipped.
Well, the R&D has been done. Send a PM to rjudgey for what he uses, buy the raw valves, and have them machined to spec. IIRC, he uses turned down exhaust valves for the intake side and Subaru (of some sort) valves turned down for the exhaust. It's not the easy way to do it, but then you're not buying parts from a company that doesn't seem to have done any real R&D work on these engines.
Hmm. It's cool that you're doing the investigation here, but this is sort of a solution to a problem we don't really have. It's pretty rare for the stock valves to fail. How many posts are there in the archives about burnt or bent valves? VERY few, even on boost.
As was mentioned, the biggest problem with the A20 valves is that they're too small. Rjudgey has done quite a bit of work on using larger valves, and Smeado has also done quite a bit of work putting together an upgraded valve train from mostly off the shelf parts. And then of course there is always the option of having valves custom made to spec. None of these options are cheap and none are direct bolt on. But it's inevitable when you get to that level.
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It get what your saying I I'm am one to over build things just to make sure its gonna last longer then I plan to keep it. It's something that helps me sleep better knowing that's I've replaced everything.
That's understandable. The thing is, Honda valve trains from that era are very well engineered with high reliability already. The question in my mind is: are these valves that Bisi is selling *really* better than the factory valves? He can say they are heavy duty, but that doesn't mean squat without more information. What is the specific material they are made of (and what are the stock valves for that matter)? I know you said stainless but there are many different grades of stainless steel. Are they harder? Do they withstand high temperatures better? Do they conduct heat away faster? Are they more wear resistant?
They may very well be better than the stock valves but what specifically makes them so? Putting them in a box that says Bisimoto doesn't do anything.
What sort of rev limit are are you looking at and how much boost? For reliability, one thing you can do is to make sure the exhaust valve seats are ground at least as wide as the factory spec. The wide seats help to pull more heat out of the valve and prevent burning. This is more important with boost due to higher combustion chamber temperatures. The intake valves are not as critical because they are cooled by the incoming fuel/air mixture. Narrower seats are usually preferred for NA performance applications because they flow better, but having boost negates that.
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I would be dd the most of the time so where it is now would be fine with 6-8psi. I however track day would want to be to rev as high as can't if I'm still making power. Psi on those days would 10-12pis tell I get a bigger turbo. I would be happy if I made 300whp top's with a stock bottom end, mildly built head on pump gas.
Now if they were something like sodium filled valves, now that would be awesome
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