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Thread: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

  1. #1
    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Unhappy Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Over the past week or so, i noticed a valve starting to tick louder than the rest and a perfect cylinder miss. I've narrowed it down to cyl#2. starting to wonder if i have a burnt valve...but it could also be a dirty/clogged injector as the little filter screens that go in the injector were lost during the rebuild a long time ago thanks to a drunk buddy. How would one go about figuring out if the fuel filters are working correctly? I can only think to take them to an injection shop to be tested. Is burnt exhaust valves a fairly common issue on our a-series? If i can locate my gap gauges, i'm going to try setting the correct valve lash again and see if this is the culprit. Could be something as simple as that. I will add too, my vacuum gauge, reads around 24 Hg/in at idle, but occasionally the needle will rhythmically move 2 Hg/in or so constantly. Between WOT and Idle, you can see the rhythmic moving a little better. I have a video to better explain visually what i'm talking about. Ignore the FP gauge. FPR is correctly set now and it still does the exact same thing. No difference.

    Video Link----> Rhythmic miss in my 86 3geez - YouTube
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    SEi User Hauntd ca3's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    a burnt valve or loose tappet is a possibility.
    check the tappet clearances first .
    check for vac leaks etc.
    if its all good, a leakdown test may be required to find if it is a burnt valve

  3. #3
    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Ten four. Thank you sir

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    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauntd ca3 View Post
    a burnt valve or loose tappet is a possibility.
    check the tappet clearances first .
    check for vac leaks etc.
    if its all good, a leakdown test may be required to find if it is a burnt valve
    Valves are all lashed correctly and there are NO vacuum leaks now(Used all new tubing). Still have this issue. Seems like the ticking seems most audible in cylinder two. all cylinders have plenty of spark and the correct fuel PSI. I have another injector sitting at the house but it's missing it's ceramic cup on the end. Would that affect anything if i'm using it to help diagnose if it's an injector issue? The cylinder 2 injector seems to be clicking abit louder than the rest for some reason. This might be the issue. It's got to be the injector or a burnt valve...
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    SEi User Hauntd ca3's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    injectors are easier to swap than valves, try the injector first.
    would be worth getting them all cleaned and flow tested just to make sure they are all close in flow rate and are not leaking at rail pressure

  6. #6
    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Visually, they're not leaking. I should have added that it's a perfectly pronounced miss at start-up but as it warms up you can still hear it but nowhere near as bad...and idk if the cup being broken off is that important or not...

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    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Figured out the dealio. The cap and rotor needed replacing. I checked it a week ago but it was at work in the parking lot in the middle of the night. I failed to notice substantial wear on the far corners of the prongs. This is what I found in the proceeding pictures. Somehow it got quite retarded. You can see where it fired on the tips



    Old one on the left, new on the right. Kinda thinking the old one was for the Hitachi Dizzy?







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    Last edited by firefighterwhite89; 04-12-2014 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Tapatalk hates hosting anything pic/vid-wise
    Shaggy
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    The cap and rotor look fine to me. In fact, they look brand new. A good ignition will at least discolor and pit the ends of the cap and wire posts after a little service. I wouldn't be surprised if you find other ignition issues. And why does your car sound like a Massey Ferguson in the video?
    Last edited by Dr_Snooz; 04-13-2014 at 06:48 AM.
    Dr_Snooz

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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    The cap and rotor look fine to me. In fact, they look brand new. A good ignition will at least discolor and pit the ends of the cap and wire posts after a little service. I wouldn't be surprised if you find other ignition issues. And why does your car sound like a Massey Ferguson in the video?
    The rotor tip is much smaller.......shorter so it was sparking off the sides on the caps post.
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    The cap and rotor look fine to me. In fact, they look brand new. A good ignition will at least discolor and pit the ends of the cap and wire posts after a little service. I wouldn't be surprised if you find other ignition issues. And why does your car sound like a Massey Ferguson in the video?
    Sounds like a massey ferguson tractor because it had a miss. Well, after putting on this new cap and rotor it ran perfect for the rest of the day. Drove to work that night (all temperatures were 60°F+ outside). Come out the next morning, cranked the car(was 42°F outside) and son of a bitch once again I have that fucking cylinder miss. It only misses though when it's cold as balls (stops after warm up) or when it idles after I push it hard (like say anything about 3500rpms(which is around 75mph with an A2K5 transmission) for more than a minute). What the hell causes that?



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  11. #11

    Dr_Snooz's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    That's a bad miss. Have you ohmed the wires? Tested the coil? Etc. What plugs are you running?
    Dr_Snooz

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    Post Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    That's a bad miss. Have you ohmed the wires? Tested the coil? Etc. What plugs are you running?
    Plug Wires=Omni Spark Set P/N#9227(Last Replaced October 2013) Resistance (Ohm/ft): 3250 Ohm/ft
    Spark Plugs=NGK G-Power Platinum BPR5EGP(Replaced March 15th, 2014)
    Import Direct Ignition Distributor Cap=P/N#10-0190(Replaced April 12th, 2014)
    Import Direct Ignition - Distributor Rotor=P/N#12-0178(Replaced April 12th, 2014)

    So far I've tried:
    Removed the VC and re-lashed the valve gaps on I/E.
    Ran Seafoam through the Fuel and Crankcase.
    Replaced the Dizzy Cap/Rotor.
    Replaced the Spark Plugs.
    Changed the Oil.
    Checked the Gap of the Plugs(Again).
    Replaced EVERY Vacuum Hose.


    IDK why I have not thought to check the plug wire resistance. I need to do this OMW home in the morning. Autozone has one I can borrow. Says These wires should be a Resistance (Ohm/ft): 3250 Ohm/ft.
    I don't see how it could be the coil being just a single cylinder miss, but I do have a spare good coil i can try. Narrowed it down to CYL#2 I believe. That spark plug was a little darker and had a little crud on it, while the other three were barely tan and looked very lightly used. I was wondering if something was in the injector I.E. fine sand particle or something that could cause the F.I. to not flow enough or correctly. I have a spare good injector but it's missing the ceramic cup on the end and i'm not really sure if that has much of an effect on the flow so i haven't tried it yet, but i'm to the point i think i'm fixing to. Need to have them compression check the Cylinders too tomorrow just in case. Never really heard of the Exhaust valves burning much on these cars, but I wonder if that's it at times too. Here's another video of the vacuum gauge where the needle kinda jumps a little at idle.

    The whole missing badly when it's below 50*F outside until it warms up(Then you can barely hear the miss) and when you push the motor hard for a few minutes, it misses yet again just like when it's first started in the cold at idle. Other than that, the miss is barely audible at just cruising like driving. When it's warmer than 50*F outside it fires right up and the miss is barely audible like it's already warmed up. Can not figure that out. Got to find a few hours I can dedicate to fixing this ASAP! Any ideas or suggestions, please throw out there.


    But, I still have this issue. I have GOT to get ahold of me a voltometer that i can use to check this stuff. My old one melted/screwed up when it fell behind my exhaust manifold and cooked for a few seconds. :/
    One of the main factors behind me not bearing down and figuring this out as quickly as I used to is I now have a newborn. Having to work 8 hours then watch and play with Keaton nearly 8 hours takes up nearly all my time/money nowadays. So please bear with me with the slow work in progress.
    Last edited by firefighterwhite89; 04-16-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Update:
    Stopped by O'Reilly Auto and they just warrantied out my old plug wires and gave me new ones. Good news is it seems to pull a bit better than before. Bad news is that miss is still there if you push it for a few minutes.
    I checked the dizzy shaft too. Really no play at all without ridiculous force applied. (No I didn't try alot of force)

    I'm pretty sure it's not the ICM, Coil, TDC sensor or the CYL sensor...at least it being a cylinder miss. In the morning tomorrow I think I may stop by AutoZone and have them compression check each cylinder (as you can see, I still need to invest in more tools.) At least rule out a burnt exhaust valve. Now, the headers I noticed are now missing 5 of 7 header studs holding the stock manifold on. Must have done it backing or going into a driveway which happens occasionally. They build these lips ridiculous down here on driveways. Only studs left are the top two outer studs. All others are broke. Yikes! Studs are on the way. I'd imagine cylinders having a hell of a backpressure loss with such an exhaust leak. Possibly a contribution to the miss I'd assume? Even a potential reason to think even a higher possibility it may be a burnt valve maybe. :/

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    Last edited by firefighterwhite89; 04-17-2014 at 06:35 AM.
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterwhite89 View Post
    Update:
    Stopped by O'Reilly Auto and they just warrantied out my old plug wires and gave me new ones. Good news is it seems to pull a bit better than before. Bad news is that miss is still there if you push it for a few minutes.
    I checked the dizzy shaft too. Really no play at all without ridiculous force applied. (No I didn't try alot of force)

    I'm pretty sure it's not the ICM, Coil, TDC sensor or the CYL sensor...at least it being a cylinder miss. In the morning tomorrow I think I may stop by AutoZone and have them compression check each cylinder (as you can see, I still need to invest in more tools.) At least rule out a burnt exhaust valve. Now, the headers I noticed are now missing 5 of 7 header studs holding the stock manifold on. Must have done it backing or going into a driveway which happens occasionally. They build these lips ridiculous down here on driveways. Only studs left are the top two outer studs. All others are broke. Yikes! Studs are on the way. I'd imagine cylinders having a hell of a backpressure loss with such an exhaust leak. Possibly a contribution to the miss I'd assume? Even a potential reason to think even a higher possibility it may be a burnt valve maybe. :/

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    Yeah ease up on throwing parts at it. Get the compression check. The plug is telling you its fouling on one. Of. The cylinder.
    Might try one step hotter plug and plain old ngk coppers work best on older motors imho.

    On the cheap get some stainless bolts for the manifold.
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    cygnus x-1's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Try swapping the #2 injector with one of the others and see if the miss follows the injector or stays on #2.

    C|

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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterwhite89 View Post
    missing badly when it's below 50*F outside until it warms up
    If it isn't a consistent miss, then it's unlikely to be a valve.

    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterwhite89 View Post
    Now, the headers I noticed are now missing 5 of 7 header studs holding the stock manifold on.
    That explains it sounding like a tractor. Is this miss causing vibration you can feel in the cabin, or can you just hear it? If it's just noise, then replace your header nuts and see if that fixes it.
    Dr_Snooz

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    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    You can feel and hear the miss if it's cold. Starts off like it has only half power unless it's above 2500rpms or higher. Then it's no longer audible or feels like it's missing. At an idle after it warms up and is ran hard, it misses but isn't feelable.

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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    I have a new obx header to put on. Just can never get enough time to install it lately. It's not going to just be a bolt and go addition. I cut the cat off and straight piped it 6 years ago, so this will require some welding(which I can do, I'm just peculiar as to how I weld SS to galvanized pipe). I have the new header studs to replace the broken ones. They were $3.49/each. Got all 7 from sonshonda.com. I need to get all that installed ASAP!

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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Decided to check the exhaust manifold runners temperatures. Generally, 450*F +/- 30*F is normal ample conditions. Anything higher is usually a stuck open injector and anything lower is commonly a dirty/clogged/failing fuel injector. I used one of our fire departments T5 thermal imaging cameras. (Measures temperatures from 32*F-4000*F all with camera layout) Here's what I came up with:

    Cylinder#1:486*F
    Cylinder#2:603*F
    Cylinder#3:503*F
    Cylinder#4:461*F

    Suspected Cylinder#2 all along.
    -Lots of black soot in the tailpipe.
    -Smells rich when running though set to stock FPSI.
    -Cylinder#2 spark plug is a slightly darker tan than the other three.

    Good new is a new Standard/T-Series FJ267T Fuel Injector should be in my mailbox in the next 3 hours.

    Bad news is I doubt I can get to it today. Think this should fix this



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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    Got the injector in. Seemed to solve almost all of the miss except there's still a slight miss to it at idle. But I have the lost power I had been missing back. It used to struggle past 4000 rpms to accelerate. Now it seems it has more power past 4K rpms. Think this corrected 80 percent of my problem. The other 20 percent is the other three injectors I should go ahead and replace. Pretty positive they all 3 have lowered output from time, heat and abuse/wear. Just not as bad as cylinder #2's was.

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  21. #21
    LXi User firefighterwhite89's Avatar
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    Re: Odd rhythmic miss/valve tick

    This injector could have been the reason my FPSI gauge would sporadically drop 4-5 psi at random @WOT though that was quite rare occurence.

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