PROJECT , TURBO ( mykwikcoupe )

[mykwikcoupe]

okay, so I am currenly working on 2 swaps rigt now.

1 N/A carbed. Should I even tae the time to rebuild the B20A. It should have 50k or less right. This engine most likely will never see muh over 4k rpm and moslty 3k rpm. will probably go with 388 dgv if i can find all thecomponents neccessary to swap.

2 EFI turbo. currenly have garret T25 turbo, hks super sequential BOV, larger fuel pump, free flowing cat coffee can muffler, tial 3mm wastgate, all the goodies. Q's are as follows

1 should I trash th T5 anduse either T3/T4 hybrid or T3. I belive there to be room enough.

2 I have acess to buy either a JG TB or a custom built one by GUDE. Should I use either or just stick with the 89 accord TB?

3 What the highest com. ratio I can run on 92 octane and have a livable engine? I say thisbecause rathr than gowith low comp istons maybe jusr reusing the ones in the B2A and going with 8-10 psi rather than ITR pistons and using 15-18 psi.

4 depending on which setup what size injectors should I use?

5 anyone have all the parts to do a 5 speed swap minus tranny lying around, No. How about the stuff to do the sei brake swap? still no huh, how about some pics of rims on a monterey greenmetallic paint coupe? I have no clue what rims to use. I think the green is kinda light so am tinting the windows like 10% or maybe 5%. i would like to do that smoke mirror tint but i think it will look kinda dumb on a green car I was hoping a white rims

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I would take the time to rebuild it b/c when do you think you will have time to rip your motor back apart and have it bored out or have the head P&P?

[RobT5580]

I would always recommend a rebuild when using a turbo even thought the two JDM motors i have purchased were both in extreamly good condition. But if your gonna do a N/A carbed i would possibly think about just dropping it in maybe do so basics like head gasket waterpump etc. And for your other questions regaurding the turbo i wouldnt use those pistons you should drop it down a tad and do it right so you save yourself some trouble later. I mean you spent good money for the turbo setup why not do higher boost and get the performance you really want by spending the little extra on prepping the block.

[toastyghost]

1. I would do T3/T4 hybrid because it spools quickly, especially if you're not trying to run huge boost.

2. I don't know about the TB specifically, but I have heard complaints about Gude's work. The stock TB will definitely be more restrictive, so go with the JG. What I was planning on doing was re-drilling a B-series aftermarket intake manifold and using a 70mm Spoon TB, which you can get at jdmhondaparts.com for $500. There are lots of other performance TB's for B-series that will fit B20A with an aftermarket manifold, and most are cheaper than the Spoon one though not bored as big.

3. I don't know how much boost you could run on stock pistons, but it doesn't matter because all the other work is a waste. I think it is Wiseco ITR pistons that are 9.0:1 comp and can get a set with rings and wristpins for $385. I forget where, though.

4. For low boost (which is dumb but it's your car) I would say probably 320cc and for higher boost 550cc tops. RCE's, of course

5. I don't know about the 5 speed swap kit, someone was selling one a month or two ago but it's gone now. You can get all that stuff from a junkyard for a couple hundred tops. As for rims, it'll probably look ok with whatever you decide to put on it assuming the rims themselves are not hideous. If you want a semi-stock kind of look though, I have some 15's off an Escort GT for sale that no one seems to be interested in. I painted one chrome and it's very reflective but not mirror finish like plated rims, and I also wet sanded and polished another one and it looks very similar, not quite as glossy as the chrome one. I haven't done anything to the other two. I'm asking $200 as-is (1 chrome, 1 polished, 2 stock), or $300 for all of them polished or chrome. Here is a link to my thread in the Market Place.. https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14195

[mykwikcoupe]

This is more for rob or anyone else that really knows there turbos or knows alot about hondas. For my B20a turbo kit I got a ta34 from ludespeed. Well in recent times i found out that is peaks around 14 psi and although thats around what i was planning on running with boost does anyone know a little more about this turbo. It cam from a 84-88 dodge daytona turbo.

Is is ball bearing or sleeve ?

Whats it efficentcy?

Because it is made by Garrett can I swap in the To3 ball bearing midsection(dont have my notes in front of me so I dont know what they call it) and make it similar to the garett GT series?

Does it have the same mounting flange as the T03 so I could use either without mods to the current kit I have. I am fastly approching the max costs for a play toy. So much for the 3000 turbo add on the B16's have

Any other info would be nice. I am talking with Ludespeed to find out if the guts are stock or if he changed anything., Thanks Mike

[RobT5580]

Im not familiar with that but you could call Tom at Ludespeed im sure he will be open to help you out. I just spoke to him last week so just give him a call but you will probably have to leave him a message and he will call you back. He uses a bunch of different flanges so i dont know what else would fit on your flange.

[PhydeauX]

You can find a bit of info on it here. If it came from a dodge I wouldn't be surprised if it came with the standard dodge flange.

andy

[mykwikcoupe]

Well Tom @ Ludespeed says that its got a T3 turbine with turbine A/R at .48 and compressor A/r at .42. I cant find the efficency anywhere but another question that I cant find is the TA34 a T3 turbine with T4 compressor like the T3/T4 is or is the TA34 a basic model #? Ive read reports saying that they ran the turbo up so 20 psi and that is has sleeve bearings so that answers one question but as far as the rest?? Thanks alot anyway. Mike

[bobafett]

the guys at homemadeturbo.com are an excellent resource, but u have to register just to view the site, since its non profit, and the owner runs the site off his home computer lol..

[Sean]

the efficency is pretty high on that old dodge turbo. its got a 2.5:1 pressure ratio at a minumum.

[b20aTURBO]

you can actually email turbonetics and send them a picture of the turbo they will tell you everything you want to know about the turbo just go to there site and go to the tech and email them I talk to somone over the phone after I emailed the photo and they told me everything about it

[mykwikcoupe]

Ok so Ive been talking back and forth to daryll at openloop motorsports now. He is figuring how much hell want for the rebuild and a few custom pieces I want for the engine.

My question is what color should I have the block and head done in. The car is monterey metallic green. Lowered on sprints with konis. I have a set of mille miglia 16s that are getting re-powdercoated a differnt color not yet desided. The interior is currently tan cloth but I am wanting to swap it out to black leather or sei dark gray. I want to have all the piping done is a anodized black chrome look. The turbo will most likely be cermachromed with the manifold and downpipe.

So should I have the engine and head cerma-chromed the same way the turbo and header will be. The cerma-chrome comes in a variety of color choices also.
http://www.performancecoatings.com/headercoatings.html
these guys are just down the road a few miles so the majority will go to them

Should I have it done in the black chrome look like the intake pipes and intercooler pipes. If I do this, I will most likely have the rims done in the black chrome also to keep a theme.

Man I cant wait to get this thing going. Ive stored these parts for over a year now with hopes and dreams. Its finally time to see the dream. hopefully sooner rather than later

[Gregg86DX]

Personally, I kinda like the clean cast aluminum look, with colored highlights, but honestly, it's going to come down to personal preference. Depending on how much you will be driving it, you may want to consider maintenance. My experience with engine paints is they don't tend to last a long time.

What custom work are you planning to have Darryl do? My current thoughts on my b20a build is a high compression N/A build, targeting a reliable 175 HP. Get the bottom end freshened up and balanced, get some 10 or 11:1 pistons, get a valve job and maybe some mild porting, a bit larger cams, header, intake and some fuel management and I should be there.

Gregg

[RobT5580]

I would just spray it a cast aluminum or like a semi chrome color like mike lee did on my block. Man im in the same boat as you except you have more stuff than i do but now that i finished the downpipe and manifold iv been all excited and i should be picking it up tomorow from getting thermal coated. I will post some pictures in a few days of the final product.

[NXRacer]

i think the gray ice, satin fresh blast and satin cast iron are all good colors. My buddy painted his block a color realy similar to the cast iron and it looks really good. Those colors will go good with just about any accent color you choose too.

[mykwikcoupe]

well the company offers a lifetime guarntee against any defects. The coatings contain no nickel so there is no worry about miscoloring. As far as what I have asked daryll to look into doing for me. He getting back to me with a final quote.

Rebuild bottom end with srp/je pistons and rods
shotpeen, deburr and polish crank, rods
have everything balanced to around 8k rpm
sleeve the block to accept turbo to max psi and a modest NO2 shot(probabaly wont use but its there if I need it)
Id like a mild overbore of 1-2mm
all the typical machine work-redack, line hone, etc
all retrofitting of JDM B16 intake. That is just simply beautiful
port match, bore/hone intake and head with flow tests to optimal flow
rebuild head with slight cc'ing or 1mm overbore valves (not sure if this is possible but I asked for him to check into it)

As far as parts, I told him I would supply most of them. I prefer honda parts. A company with as much R&D as honda and engines that live to 200k miles plus with little to no problems is a great test. The pistons and rods Id have replicated stock to keep the same compression but maybe larger bore as you read previously

anything you notice is out of place please let me know. i do mostly domestic overhauls. This is my first import rebuild. Ive read about 6k pages of info over the past few years. I dont plan on revving over say 7k at most. This isnt a vtech. I plan on starting with stock cams and see how that goes. Ill get adjustable gears for timing and tuning.

My other rebuild I have going is like yours greg. I am going stock A20a carbed intake with a weber kit. Ill go overbore and the same treatment to the botoom end. Nothing too elaborate. its for the wifeys daily driver. Id just like to see the same power through a carbed intake rather than a PGMFI setup. Im al limiting the machine work and parts to around 1000 on the second engine

Oh speaking od which, whats a good estimate for all this work. if it was your shop, how much would you charge for just the turbo engine work. I am planning on about 22-2800. Is this too much or too little

[RobT5580]

Damn thats gonna cost a pretty penny. If your going to that extent IMO i would get some real rods just for the extra securty cause if a rod breaks your out of a block and all that machine work. Dont quote me on this but i double check with the prelude board and H23 rods do fit properly and there is a company that makes rods for the B20A5 but you will need B20A5 pistons also. And to add to that i would consider a cometic metal head gasket let me know on that cause im gonna buy probably 2 of them so maybe we can get a deal on them if we do it together.

Just my 2 cents since you seem to be going all the way.

[b20aTURBO]

As far as the rods and pistons are concerned when I was researching my motor I talked with crower..arias..and a couple of other companies they assured me that most of the honda pistons and rods were similar and they could match them up if I sent them to them if i can remember correctly the prelude rods and pistons should fit just fine i would give these companies a call they will help you out

[mykwikcoupe]

well well have to see how everything turns out. I dont plan on going cheap anywhere. I believe that i have only bought great products thus far (B20ATURBO thanks alot). Id like to be able to compete in a decent class when it gets done and if not then itll go the way the other projects do. DOWN THE ROAD!!!

I help a friend build a 69 mach 1. When it came time for the engine choice he chose a 351 and I wanted to see a nice 428,427, something like that so i asked for my part of the investment thus far and calmly walked away. It was OUR car but now its just HIS. It turned out nice but its still Plain and ot as spunky as it could be. Id at least go with cosworth intake or something

[Sean]

well ive got a machine shop that i deal on a direct basis with IE and i pop in the shop and inspect work etc at any time unanouced. if you want that type of work done etc. thats done easily enough. as for the over bore. id think 2mm would be a bit extreme over 60 thousandths. and the stock sleeve being dry and all wont take that abuse. with a resleeve your risking cylinder wall intergrity. then your looking at darton wet sleeve like the MID seires. really just waste IMO. id first check the bore for wear then based on that id make a decision on pistons size. as for making custom pistons Diamond is minutes from my house. so handling that end is easy enough. and i can get your over sized valve done to. if you need help just email me.

[email protected]

id be more then glad to hook you up with my machinist. although youd have to pay shipping. 4 of the best head porters in the country live within 60 minutes of my house so yet again your getting first class treatment.

[mykwikcoupe]

hey sean where are you at again. Id like to send the entire intake from the TB to the head to a shop for honing and match porting. Ive done my own on some of the older domestics but Im not sure if it actually did anything. Id like a flow test done with hard numbers. Im not too interested in getting every ounce of power out of this engine but wit the money invested id like to se a fair gain.

As far as the sleeving goes Im not too sure hwat to do there. I know I want a cleanup bore and I figured that by overizing the bor it may help the stroke ratio problem a little(I may be thinking wrong here!) I really dont plan on ever running over 20 psi and Im not even sure if the turbo I have will do it. Id like to run in the 12-18 psi range depending on tuning and output values. My turbo is a TA34 with a compressor trim of .42 and a turbine trim of .48. Now Ive read a few books and read alot of online pages about turbo sizing and mapping and all that jazz but still dont know how this turbo will preform. It was part of the kit I got from Ludespeed. It has been converted to an external wastgate but isnt a ball bearing turbo. From what Ive gathered so far, the turbo should begin the transistion from lag to boost about 2-2200 rpm(sorry i forgot what the term for this is). The B20a isnt a vtech engin and dont really care but i dont see myself revving beyond the 7k rpm limit anyway. Id like to build the engine to sustain these qualities and livablity that Honda is known for.

As far as tuning and engine managment is concerned. I have a Apexi S-AFC, a HKS EVC 4, aTial 35mm wastegate, a HKS Super sequential blow off valve. The kit i got form ludespeed has all the upgraded options such as the external wastgate for the turbo and the upgraded downpipe. I dont plan on trying to tune this myself. i was going to have it perfessionally tuned for both street and strip conditions. I have a act clutch and pressure plate and am looking into the findaza flywheel thr rob fouind.

basicly is there anything I am overlooking or not looking at. What type of power should I expect to see in reality? Ive read plenty of whatr you and others have to say. I am not an engine eficianato or guru but know as much as it takes to know how to do basic rebuilds and such. I build things as a hobby(a very expensive hobby at that).

If you could check and see what your shop may want for all this work that would be great. do you think they could do the JDM B16 intake swap like openloop did?

[Sean]

basically i think your spedning money in the wrong places. the engine rod ratio wont imporve with an overbore. a longer rod would help with that. if you dont need a big over bore dont get one. as for sleeves ill talk to the machinist. itll depend on the quality of the iron in there and the quality of what easy to replace it with. yeah pistons rods etc. it can all be done. just email me. Ill set you up. PS im in detriot Michigan. so shipping is a must.

[mykwikcoupe]

The kit I currently have is a ludespeed modification. Ive got a TA34 with a .42 compressor a/r and a .48 turbine a/r. Ive been told that its capable of about 280 hp. Im not sure thats enough for what Im looking for. Whats the largest turbo I can fit on the b20a with a/c and ps without lowering the compression. When I rebiuld it Im going with aftermarket rods and pistons but am going to have them remade exactly like stock. Id like to see low to mid 300hp.

Im thinking in the range of a t3/4 hybrid if itll fit. the turbonetics gt25 looks promising but am not sure of its size and if it will work with my setup. I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE MY MANIFOLD. Its got a 4 bolt hookup. If any changes are needed Id be willing to change the downpipe but dont really want to change that either. I want a low spool around 2-2500and enough boost to range 18-25 max. sorry if my demands seem imposible but Im posting this looking for info. this is my first turbo project and have dealt mainly with supercharges. Ive searched the net alot talked and sent many emails to only get a BS responce or nothing at all.

[mykwikcoupe]

I can take pics. Ive been told its a TA324 but am not 100% sure. is there a marker on the housing someplace? Also how do you measure trim? many of his other kits are running t25 turbos. I just dont want to spend all the time and money getting this thing just right. bring it to the dynu and get like 210 hp. his preludes where getting 178 rwhp and thats low for me. Where starting with 160. Im into the project almost 8k so my expectations are kinda high.

[Oyvind Ryeng]

The manifold has what flange? Almost every turbo in the entire world has a 4-bolt flange. We *need* to know if it's a T25/T28 or a T3 or a T4 flange to be able to help you.

Also, search the archives over at Honda-Tech.com. You'll most likely use the same sized turbo as the B18A/B (LS) users. You'll most likely use a standard T3/T4 hybrid with a .63 A/R Stage-3 wheel (T350?) turbine side and a .60 A/R 54- or 57-trim compressor side. This turbo has become the norm for turbo most Hondas. The rich boys gets the Garret GT30R or GT35R.

What are the exact WHP the turbo has to support? What compression? What cams? What type of manifold? How high are you spinning the engine? Want a low-end torque monster or neck-breaking top-end?