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Thread: PROJECT , TURBO ( Accordtheory )

  1. #1
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    Exclamation PROJECT , TURBO ( Accordtheory )

    I just want to share some of what I have learned and done with my 87 lxi hatchback project car. I decided to turbocharge this car about a year ago, and progress has been extremely slow, for a variety of reasons, including lack of motivation, money, connections, and a complete lack of aftermarket parts for this car. I had to make almost all of the parts myself, and I don't really have the tools to be doing this. Here is the basic setup. The turbo is a mitsubishi "big 16g" that I bought from MVP Motorsports last summer. The turbo manifold is all me, constructed out of 1/1/2" mild steel weld L's. The runners are 12/3/4" long, and the turbo sits off to the passenger side of the engine bay, more in front of the transaxle than the engine. By the way, this was a total pain in the ass to set up, the accord engine bay has no clearance and I had to modify everything from the power steering line to the a/c lines to getting a thinner cooling fan to make this fit. Also, this manifold generates an incredible amount of heat, and despite wrapping everything I could think of with heat reflective tape, it still managed to melt some insulation and do some other minor damage. Right now, the car doesn't even have its hood. I will probably take the manifold off, and wrap it with header wrap, because it just adds way too much heat to my engine bay. The downpipe is a very non restrictive 3" diameter, as is the entire exhaust system. (The air conditioning still works, by the way) The air filter is in the fenderwell, and since the intake tube goes where the battery used to be, the battery now sits in the back, next to my sub box. Right now, there is no intercooler, so I just used 2/1/2" exhaust tubing for the charge air pipe to the throttle body. The oil lines were also a challenge, try buyinga fitting that connects to this turbo. I had to make this fitting out of a fuel line fitting, and then had a shop make me the AN lines. Obviously, I also had to remove the oil pan and weld in a fitting for the oil drain line. The intake manifold is a modified 88/89 2 stage unit. The runners have been enlarged almost 1/4/" in the transition area after the butterfly valves, and 4 450cc injectors from a first gen turbo eclipse were added to the bottom of the manifold. Since the runners are not straight, each injector is at a different location/angle, necessitating individual fuel lines. I couln't find a shop to do this, so I did all of this myself. The injectors are controlled by a supplemental injector controller from 034 efi. This unit is very inexpensive and highly functional, programmable via windows. Just don't hook up the rpm trigger wire to the coil, this is how I destroyed the first controller! The intake manifold is controlled by an msd rpm activated switch, set to open the butterfly valves at 3900 rpm. When I sarted driving and tuning this car, I made several stupid mistakes, which basically cost me my engine. (The egt gauge reacts way to slowly to be worth shit, and the factory oxygen sensor is only good to tell you rich, stoich, or lean, but not by how much) I had a problem with the injector controller because of the rpm wire, which resulted in it going lean under boost to the point of making the engine backfire(!!!) and I did not start out with retarded ignition timing, so I got some detonation... Now I have 3 cylinders around 150psi compression, and #4 is at 90... The engine blows a cloud of smoke out of the crankcase breather vent under boost. By the way, with a turbo engine, it is very important that the engine does not inhale blow by gasses under boost, as this severely lowers the octane of what is in your cylinders, and invites detonation. Anyway, here's what you guys really want to know, how much power does it have? I have no idea, but if you roll away from a stoplight like normal, and then press on the accelerator aggressively, the boost comes on slightly below 3k rpm, with about 8 psi by maybe 3400. The tires both break loose with 5 psi, and the boost goes up to 8 or 9, so I have to manipulate the throttle to keep the engine off the limiter. This traction problem is very violent, and I am worried about breaking my motor mounts, or something else. When I drop the shifter into 2nd, the tires keep spinning for maybe another 10 feet, before the car gets enough traction to make the piece of shit clutch slip. It's funny to do this shit in front of a typical modified civic or integra. So what's next? Forged internals, better rings, a better clutch, closed loop detonation control, a better fuel pump, an air/liquid intercooler, and of course 20+ psi. (The factory wastegate is set at 15, but I have modified it to allow lower boost pressures for now) As far as I know, there is only one other person (Justin) who has built a turbo accord on this list. To you I ask, how did you get your pistons and rods, and what is the stock rod length on this engine? I would like to use Wiseco pistons, Total Seal rings, and Eagle rods. (?) Also, what type of clutch are you using? I am thinking about a Clutchmasters stage 3. As far as the closed loop detonation control, you know I am talking about the J&S safeguard. This unit is awesome, with individual cylinder knock control, TPS and MAP connections to solve boost related problems, and its monitor is compatible with the Bosch lsm-11 wideband 02 sensor. Are you using this thing? I will be for sure!
    Peace, and see you guys on the streets!



  2. #2
    3Geez Veteran 88LXi68's Avatar
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    sounds mean... how about some pics?
    '88 LX-i Coupe --- LS/Vtec
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  3. #3

    NXRacer's Avatar
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    DUDE, talk to Sean about your engine management. He's been in development for a while. He might be able to help ya.

    MAD props to ya for this project. It sounds like you've spent an INSANE amount of time working on that project.

    keep up the good work. And ditto on the pictures.
    Nothin' 2 Old Racing

  4. #4

    shepherd79's Avatar
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    good job.
    i think you should get forged pictons next so the engine can hold the boost you have now with no problem.
    yeah, talk to Sean, and he will hook you up with nice boost friendly ECU.
    Alex.

  5. #5

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    i like the sound of those traction problems!


    whats the total cost that u have sunk into this project? i am about to start buying parts for my turbo setup. i am planning on a .42/.48 turbo off of sunbird or turbo chrysler, with a Tyrus FMIC and seans ecm setup for engine management. but i havent bought any of it yet. i want to have a 100% concrete plan before i spend a cent.

  6. #6
    3Geez Veteran AccordEpicenter's Avatar
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    if youre still running on 3 cyls i bet you blew your headgasket... they tend to go if you run high boost.
    429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*

  7. #7
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    funny i was out yesterday running 15 psi and my head gasket is fine ?
    Want your A series to kick a B series engines ass?email me for detials or check out our site

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  8. #8
    3Geez Veteran AccordEpicenter's Avatar
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    Wait isnt he using a built bottom end or is he planning on building one? Ive heard of a bunch of guys that had the head off like a few times and used the same head bolts and just kept blowing hg's, I guess it could be a problem if the bolts arent that fresh
    429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*

  9. #9
    SEi User gr3k0sLaV's Avatar
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    this sounds full sik man
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  10. #10
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    if you had better control of the ingition system like i do then you wouldnt be having trouble with headgaskets. also swapping to studs can make a diference but its negliable unless your running like 18 or more psi. then you run into the head lifting off the block. as for the ECM setups im gonna offer a few different flavors here pretty soon. ill make an annoucment in the very near future.
    Want your A series to kick a B series engines ass?email me for detials or check out our site

    WWW.ACCORDCENTRAL.COM

  11. #11

    Justin86's Avatar
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    Turbos are fun. That is a freaking huge ass write up. Get some pics up soon. I want to see your exhaust manifold.
    I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.

  12. #12
    3Geez Veteran AccordEpicenter's Avatar
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    damn... how fast is this car anyways? Hes probably in the high 13s low 14s? Son you need slix
    429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*

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    Yeah, I know no one is going to read this unless they are referred here, but here are some recent updates to my turbosystem. First, I, with the help of a couple friends, pulled my old engine out of my accord, and then disassembled the short block. The piston looked as I had imagined, with still intact upper ring breaking its land and pushing the pieces down into the 2nd ring, breaking it as well. I installed a used shortblock supposedly from an 86 dx (engine code BS) and also the J&S Safeguard knock control unit, in hopes of not having to replace any more pistons anytime soon. Also, apparently my car had some freak nonstock clutch and transmission. My old flywheel weighed like 5lbs more than the flywheel I got with my new engine, and the tranny had a different spline count for the driveaxles. I could never find driveaxles for my old tranny,and I tried everything I could think of. So now my car has another engine, trans, clutch, flywheel, driveaxles, and the J&S unit. However, I don't know what is up with this shortblock, because it has unusually low oil press, (as low as 40psi at 70mph) even with 20w50. The other shortblock had more press with 10w30. I used my old pickup tube, pump, oil control nozzle, and oil filter housing. The only difference is the shortblock itself. The J&S is a very cool unit, if it is functioning properly. I can not get mine to do that. I have the symptoms explained under my post "11 psi on the stock fuel pump". Also, my car now sits much lower, and this helped my traction problems considerably. It used to squat like a big american car with a powerful V8, now it is much more flat, even though it still completely overpowers the tires in 1st. When I had my system apart, I wrapped my header in exhaust wrap, which cause it to warp slightly. This was an incredible pain in the ass to fix. I had to take it off, weld up the surface of the flanges, and then cut them down until they were perfectly flat. I did this BY HAND. I used permatex "high temp ultra copper" sealant and it seals perfectly, even with one broken stud. What I plan on doing next is:
    1)Fix the J&S problem
    2) Upgrade the fuel pump
    3)I need new struts, spings, and 17s sooo badly
    4)Turn the boost up (Preferably with the aid of a chassis dyno and their wideband 02 sensor, which is something I have yet to use and desperately need) until the clutch starts slipping
    5)Custom clutch, possibly adapt integra flywheel/pressure plate with custom disc made to fit on the smaller accord input shaft, then turn it up a little more
    6) Air/liquid intercooler using my A/C condenser as the heat exchanger and the windshield washer fluid container as the reservior. Now I should be able to turn it up even more, maybe to as much as 15 psi..? I don't know, I will see how much power I am generating at a given boost level, and once I reach maybe 230whp, I will probably buy one of sean's built shortblocks, and then turn it up until I start reaching the point of diminishing returns, possibly around 22 psi... I have said before my goal is 340whp, and I am going to try hard to get it.
    7) If I haven't achieved my goal yet, no surprise, a certain intake manifold will be my next step. I am not going to say what it is, but it appears to be made more for forced induction that its competitors (larger plenum) and it also a very good price, slightly more than half the price of the old manifold I wanted, the skunk2 B18A/B B20 manifold.
    8)Next up: Port out the cylinder head, after I read more about fluid dynamics, etc
    9) Different cam
    10) Still haven't achieved my goal?? I guess its time for a turbo and header upgrade. I know I won't want to make another header, because I put so much effort into the one I have. This upgrade will take my hp way over the top, into the 500 level...

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    in progress pic


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    SteveDX89's Avatar
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    Damn, I wonder if that pic can get any bigger. Looks like it's coming along. Keep it up.
    No projects. Life consumes my time and money.

  16. #16

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    Pic doesnt work. All i see is imagestation.

    EDIT

    Maybe this will work.

    Thinking about getting a new 3g...

  17. #17

    Bloodlust's Avatar
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    Btw looks nice.
    Thinking about getting a new 3g...

  18. #18
    2.0Si User buzzbomber88lx's Avatar
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    that looks great man.....looks like you've done a lot of work!
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  19. #19

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    i give it a 10, a F*$#ing 10!
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    SEi User od2681's Avatar
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    i cant see anything...im blindedded


    .

  21. #21
    SEi User adams86lxi's Avatar
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    man!!!! good work!!!!
    http://www.myspace.com/3364524

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  22. #22
    2.0Si User speedpenguin's Avatar
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    brilliant!
    that is SICK

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  23. #23

    Justin86's Avatar
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    Oh yea I can see a lot of progress...

    oh yea now it works. that mani looks sick, YO!!!
    Last edited by Justin86; 05-18-2004 at 02:40 PM.
    I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.

  24. #24

    Robs89LXi's Avatar
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    Very nice. Tell me more about the exhaust manifold (who built it, material, weight, how supported?). Also, what did you do with your radiator?
    Last edited by Robs89LXi; 05-23-2004 at 10:33 PM.
    "Feed their greed with your need for speed"

  25. #25
    LX User cvergi01's Avatar
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    looks good, i like the blue manifold...looks purdy
    *** If your not willing to spend the energy to get what you want, at least spend the energy dealing with what you have ***

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