A20 build or JDM B20a buy

[bryan6732]

So what to do?

1. Build my A20:
- Port and polish head
- Valve job
- Bisimoto Level 2 cam + valve springs + cam gear
- Go OBD1 with a tune-up

Gonna cost me at least €2k (about USD 2800)

2. Buy a complete JDM B20A gold top coming out of a BA1 Lude from New Zealand, with manual transmission.

Gonna cost me between €1800 and €2500 (USD 2500-3500) total.

What'd you guys recommend? And why? :)

[bryan6732]

And why? :) ;)

[RAZR]

I voted for the a20 option
I want to see a built a20 and see what number u can get out of an NA a20. It would be awesome if u got over 160 with it.
How extreme do u wanna go with ur build?

[87roach]

Where did you manage to find titanium valve springs? .. Haha

Stick with a motor you can actually get parts for, b20 is cool and all but if you can't get parts then it's worthless.

[bryan6732]

I voted for the a20 option
I want to see a built a20 and see what number u can get out of an NA a20. It would be awesome if u got over 160 with it.
How extreme do u wanna go with ur build?

As far as the money allows me to, so step by step. What I've got now is a carbed A20a2 so first step
will be FI conversion with the already ported and polished B18 mani I have and my Pacesetter exhaust header.

What I would really like to have is this:

http://www.extrudabody.com/catalog/Honda%20A20%20ITB_1861c.jpg

It's just so damn expensive, and I hate standalone ECUs. I suck in electrics! :lol:

But what I was thinking about is: IF I'd get 160 hp out of it, a B20 already has that stock (and with some cams.......).
The other side: my A20a4 already had 190 Nm torque (stock B20 has 186 I believe) with only the Pacesetter headers...


Where did you manage to find titanium valve springs? .. Haha

Stick with a motor you can actually get parts for, b20 is cool and all but if you can't get parts then it's worthless.

Hmm, always thought the Bisi springs were titanium, don't know why! :lol:

You're right, the parts thing is the only reason I'm still hesitating...

[cygnus x-1]

What I would really like to have is this:

http://www.extrudabody.com/catalog/Honda%20A20%20ITB_1861c.jpg

It's just so damn expensive,


I have those, and they are expensive. They are also not a straightforward install. I had significant issues with getting all the TBs lined up correctly and staying that way after the engine warmed up. The intake manifold would heat up and expand enough to cause the intake manifold bolts to loosen. This would cause the manifold to warp slightly which would cause the throttle shafts to bind up not quite close all the way. I was able to minimize the issue by using silicone sealer on all the throttle bodies instead of paper gaskets (to minimize any shifting due to gasket compliance), and by tightening the crap out of the intake manifold to head bolts.

Something else I would strongly recommend with this setup is to use a filter box plate (like in the picture) to join all the throttle bodies together and help stabilize the assembly. I opted to use individual filters because I thought they would take up less space. Turns out they still take up a fair amount of space. I'll be building an air box eventually.




and I hate standalone ECUs. I suck in electrics! :lol:

If you want to stick with fuel injection you won't get far without some sort of tunable engine management, be it standalone or OBD1 conversion. You could of course go the carb route with twin Webers. Rjudgey could maybe even help you out with that since he's in the UK.


C|

[bryan6732]

I have those, and they are expensive. They are also not a straightforward install. I had significant issues with getting all the TBs lined up correctly and staying that way after the engine warmed up. The intake manifold would heat up and expand enough to cause the intake manifold bolts to loosen. This would cause the manifold to warp slightly which would cause the throttle shafts to bind up not quite close all the way. I was able to minimize the issue by using silicone sealer on all the throttle bodies instead of paper gaskets (to minimize any shifting due to gasket compliance), and by tightening the crap out of the intake manifold to head bolts.

Something else I would strongly recommend with this setup is to use a filter box plate (like in the picture) to join all the throttle bodies together and help stabilize the assembly. I opted to use individual filters because I thought they would take up less space. Turns out they still take up a fair amount of space. I'll be building an air box eventually.

Hmm, for the money you pay for it you'd expect it to be decent...
But for me those ITBs are still far away!


If you want to stick with fuel injection you won't get far without some sort of tunable engine management, be it standalone or OBD1 conversion. You could of course go the carb route with twin Webers. Rjudgey could maybe even help you out with that since he's in the UK.

Going OBD1 isn't really a big thing cause it's all plug and play.. That is,
if I can get in touch with Lx-Incredible and if he's willing to produce those
conversion harnesses. Don't know if he still does that. It's just quite expensive
too cause I'll need everything to be sent from the US to Europe (including the distributor and ECU),
which means I will also have to pay taxes and customs (23% of the total price).

But yeah, I've got all the time..

About the Webers... Maybe I'll do that eventually, but for now I've got my mind on a FI setup.. :)

[Nafs Asdf]

Why not find an EDM B20A, would cost you a fraction of the JDM one?

[bryan6732]

Why not find an EDM B20A, would cost you a fraction of the JDM one?

Yeah that'd be an option, but it's not that much of a power gain..
Also, I've never seen a B20A2/8 Accord over here. Only one in Germany but that one was still driving around.

[Nafs Asdf]

For the same money that you'd spend on the JDM B20 you'd be able to get more power out of the EDM one, but as you said, might be difficult to find one.

[bryan6732]

For the same money that you'd spend on the JDM B20 you'd be able to get more power out of the EDM one, but as you said, might be difficult to find one.

Yeah.. But the idea is good actually. Might look into that too.
Shame I can't change the poll options! :lol:

About the EDM B20A1: Wiki insinuates that this engine is the European equivalent of the JDM B20A.
So in other words: same engine, less power, but still direct swap in a 3G?

[Nafs Asdf]

The B20A1 is from a 2g prelude right? So it would bolt in, I imagine it would be harder to find than a B20A2 or B20A8 tho.

[apache07x]

I voted for the A20 build. I got a JDM B20A in the garage I'm putting in mine but if I would have had any inkling of an idea how hard it would be to find parts for it there is no way I would have even considered it. I mean you can't even find a gasket set for it, easily at least. I haven't been able to find one yet and I've contacted or tried to contact every place in these 3geez forums and what I've found on the net without any luck. I've given up. So now I'm stuck with a motor that if it ever blows a head gasket I'm screwed as far as I can tell? It will be back to the A20 for me!

[cygnus x-1]

Hmm, for the money you pay for it you'd expect it to be decent...
But for me those ITBs are still far away!


Don't get me wrong, they're still way cool. It's just that they aren't a plug-n-play mod. But then ITBs never are. Binding throttle plates is a common problem with ITBs.

Tuning is also much harder than tuning with a common plenum setup.




Going OBD1 isn't really a big thing cause it's all plug and play.. That is,
if I can get in touch with Lx-Incredible and if he's willing to produce those
conversion harnesses. Don't know if he still does that. It's just quite expensive
too cause I'll need everything to be sent from the US to Europe (including the distributor and ECU),
which means I will also have to pay taxes and customs (23% of the total price).


Customs taxes are easy to get around since the shipper determines the value. ;)


C|

[bryan6732]

The B20A1 is from a 2g prelude right? So it would bolt in, I imagine it would be harder to find than a B20A2 or B20A8 tho.

B20A1 is from EDM 2g lude and EDM 3g Accord (according to Wiki at least), so it is a direct swap indeed.
I found a guy who has a few of those blocks. But I guess these motors have the same parts problem as the JDM B20A, since they're the same... (right?)


Don't get me wrong, they're still way cool. It's just that they aren't a plug-n-play mod. But then ITBs never are. Binding throttle plates is a common problem with ITBs.

Tuning is also much harder than tuning with a common plenum setup.

Off course they're cool. ITB = cool (definition! :))


Customs taxes are easy to get around since the shipper determines the value. ;)

True.. :)


I think It's clear, gonna keep the A20... Just gotta figure out whether I'm going FI or Webers.

[gfrg88]

If you're thinking about a20, which i think is better, I would look at Ryan's (hondalude86) build.. That's a bad ass n/a build if you ask me... and there's still more he could have done too... kinda mild actually, but still badass!!!! :)

[accordlxibseries]

look on ebay. you can find anything on there. i have a b20a that i was gonna swap but the parts are rare. just like the a20a3 parts are kind of rare. so either way you have to find rare parts. just pick your poison

[Nafs Asdf]

B20A1 is from EDM 2g lude and EDM 3g Accord (according to Wiki at least), so it is a direct swap indeed.
I found a guy who has a few of those blocks. But I guess these motors have the same parts problem as the JDM B20A, since they're the same... (right?)


I don't know if the A1 ever came in an Accord, I wouldn't rely too heavily on wikipedia.

I don't see why you would have a big problem with parts being you are in Europe. Any car parts dealer should have parts for it, or if all else fails go to your local honda dealer.

[bryan6732]

If you're thinking about a20, which i think is better, I would look at Ryan's (hondalude86) build.. That's a bad ass n/a build if you ask me... and there's still more he could have done too... kinda mild actually, but still badass!!!! :)

Lol don't look on the Prelude pages of the site too much, but his build looks great!
Although I want to do headwork mostly. But it's a great build fo sho! :)


look on ebay. you can find anything on there. i have a b20a that i was gonna swap but the parts are rare. just like the a20a3 parts are kind of rare. so either way you have to find rare parts. just pick your poison

A20 parts are available over here. OEM parts at least, not talking about aftermarket cause what's left of that we gotta have it shipped from the US...


I don't know if the A1 ever came in an Accord, I wouldn't rely too heavily on wikipedia.

I don't see why you would have a big problem with parts being you are in Europe. Any car parts dealer should have parts for it, or if all else fails go to your local honda dealer.

In fact, it doesn't really matter if it came in an Accord, since it's sure they're from a 2G Prelude so it will fit directly definitely.

For the parts story, I actually don't know about the availability of them in Europe. But IF they are, that opens doors to JDM B20As right????
Not that I'm going for one, buying it is just too expensive for what you get, but that still would be news...

[Hauntd ca3]

Don't get me wrong, they're still way cool. It's just that they aren't a plug-n-play mod. But then ITBs never are. Binding throttle plates is a common problem with ITBs.

Tuning is also much harder than tuning with a common plenum setup.
C|

itbs dont bind if you do them like mine :)
and if done like mine, with a vacum source from each throttle and a tps, tuning shouldnt be much different than a common plenum since the map reads the vac of all cylinders it will be a similar signal as a plenum

[rjudgey]

Tough call, if you have a manifold for one done it will fit either so thats good carbed or ITB, personally think your better going megasquirt than OBD1 it's easier to wire up and the software isn't too bad to use with 4 cylinder cars Cygnus has already proved that! You can run this on either engine, the ignition is standalone on the stock 3G accord/2G SI prelude so you could run webers or bike carbs which I'd imagine would be easy and cheap to get hold off in Holland if not definately in UK.
I have a couple of B20A preludes but I thought the rear mount was slightly different between 3G accord B20A and 2G prelude B20A???
They do come up on ebay cheap ones too so maybe worth looking to buy and ship over and scrap to put into your Accord, Probably best to hire a trailer and just bring it over that way? If they weren't so rare I'd sell you a complete setup I May consider it if the price was right I could also rebuild it and do some headwork but depends howmuch you have to play with!
I could also help you out with A20 build my A20 engine just ran a 14.1 second 1/4 mile this weekend with a stock hand built A20A4 block, A20 head with big valves, 285 camshaft from pipers in UK, webers on custom inlet manifold that I could get made for you again (or you can use on ITB's and run cheaper ones than pictured above), also the head was using a stock cast manifold 4-2-1 type with custom 2-1 downpipe 2" tubing to 2.5" collector and mandrel bent system. If you don't have to run a CAT this setup can easily produce 170-190bhp depending on final CR ratio, ignition setup, and camshaft choice. And more can be had if you had really high CR ratio pistons and some other custom stuff made up, custom header would be a must as well as some other bits and bobs to help. Also you could get a 1G integra/CRX gearbox and take it's gears and swap into yours, LSD from B16A and later 2001 Civic SI, 2G 1.8l prelude flywheel machined and clutchnet plate and disk will have your drivetrain sorted out too!!

[bryan6732]

First of all, thanks for the extensive respond (btw thanks to all of you who commented!)

What I have in mind now (subject to change) is a built A20 head with Webers.
I've found a company (Van Kronenburg, some might know them from their KMS ECUs) who can do my head for about €1k, which includes:

- Port and polish intake and exhaust channels
- Regrind camshaft
- Head milling and cleaning
- Grinding and cleaning valves, seats, guides

That is, if everything goes by plan. (I'm taking my own disassembled head, so they don't do any (dis)assembling at all)
Don't know whether this is a good price or not.

Oh and rjudgey, you've got PM.

[rjudgey]

Depends can you get an exact detail of what they are doing type of seats they're cutting and specs, and also for the camshaft as well.
To me this price seems a little high in the UK I could get the same stuff done for less, seats cut to pro std £250 radius 5 angle (maybe less as 12 valve), port clean up on all 8 ports £200, Head skim £40, clean £10, camshaft £200 for a grind from Pipers.

To be honest don't keep stock guides have new ones from SI valves sent to you they are cheap as chips shipping will cost more than the guides!! Then having them fitted is cheap too. And you really should invest in bigger valves as well but these are a little pricier but SI Valves again can help out send you some blanks and have them machined to suit your head. Or Smeado has some options as well on the valves which will help. A20 Head can take 32mm inlet valves and 37mm exhaust valves easily which is a nice step up from stock. You can go bigger but will need new seats and a bigger bore size!! 83.5mm pistons would enable you to go upto around 34mm inlet size maybe even 35mm!! Something I'm considering next anyway!

[rjudgey]

For 2000 euro you could get quite a lot of something done, especially if I help you out you can easily make big power with either engine, just depends on what route you want to take, EFI or carbs, as your already carbs I'd say stick with that unless fuel bills is a big concern but to be honest EFI isn't that much more efficient!! I drove my car to the track and back which is about 100miles away did 15 drag runs and a few runs on the handling circuit and used about a full tank off fuel maybe a smidge over 65-70litres in total and I wasn't driving slowly to track and back steady 85 on the highway and then lots of country driving. If just on highway probably could manage 400miles at cruising speed even with Integra box.

[cygnus x-1]

itbs dont bind if you do them like mine :)

I forget now, you used the Toyota 4AGE setup?

There are definitely better and worse designs. In my particular case most of the problem was caused by the intake manifold bolts working loose, but the way mine are setup they are more sensitive to this than other designs. But the advantage to the Extrudabody design is that it's totally modular. I can change the runner lengths before and after the throttle plate if needed for tuning. I can also change base plates or spacing if I wanted to put them on a different engine.

I do really like the Kinsler design too where they put the throttle shafts vertically and connect them with a linkage instead of couplers.



and if done like mine, with a vacum source from each throttle and a tps, tuning shouldnt be much different than a common plenum since the map reads the vac of all cylinders it will be a similar signal as a plenum

Tapping from each runner helps but the signal is still pretty lumpy. How much so depends a lot on the cam too. If your ECU can use the TPS for fueling as well as MAP it will be much easier since the MAP tends to change very little once the throttles open a little. For example, on mine, above maybe 10% throttle position the MAP is already up to 90% of full scale. Above maybe 30% throttle the MAP is totally useless.


C|

[Hauntd ca3]

yeah, i used the toyota black top 4age.
since real nice aftermarket itbs are way expensive over here, people use the toyota set up for heaps of things, since they are cheap,plentiful,flow more than 45dcoe webers and did i mention cheap?
they are nice and big( 46mm butterflies ) and the way the toyota manifold tapers nicely to the remains of the honda manifold will help keep the inertia supercharging effect, which will be especially helpful since there is no valve overlap to help with the scavenging.
the main part of the decision to use the toyota set up was the price.
$200 nzd for the whole toyota part of the set up,injectors,throttles,manifold,tps,fpr.

and i doubt that i will ever have the need for the amount of air these things will flow since i dont have plans for big hp numbers.
the toyota manifold has a vacum passage from each runner to a common outlet so the map signal should be stable enough for tuning it nicely.
the ecu i have , has inputs for map and tps for fueling and ign mapping purposes.
i'm going to run the standard cams until i can afford to do a full rebuild of the motor which is when i'll bump up the compression and do some minor porting with some fast road cams, prob something similar to the profile of h22a big vtec lobe, sort of my interpretation of how honda might have done a type r ca3 :)

[bryan6732]

Depends can you get an exact detail of what they are doing type of seats they're cutting and specs, and also for the camshaft as well.
To me this price seems a little high in the UK I could get the same stuff done for less, seats cut to pro std £250 radius 5 angle (maybe less as 12 valve), port clean up on all 8 ports £200, Head skim £40, clean £10, camshaft £200 for a grind from Pipers.

I can tell them what I want them to do...
The prices you said are cheaper indeed, it's about €800 for everything.
The difference is that they are asking €400 for the porting and polishing.

But then, how much would shipping be? And I'd have to buy a cylinder head on distance since that's probably cheaper than sending mine to the UK.

But still, sounds good! :)


For 2000 euro you could get quite a lot of something done, especially if I help you out you can easily make big power with either engine, just depends on what route you want to take, EFI or carbs, as your already carbs I'd say stick with that unless fuel bills is a big concern but to be honest EFI isn't that much more efficient!! I drove my car to the track and back which is about 100miles away did 15 drag runs and a few runs on the handling circuit and used about a full tank off fuel maybe a smidge over 65-70litres in total and I wasn't driving slowly to track and back steady 85 on the highway and then lots of country driving. If just on highway probably could manage 400miles at cruising speed even with Integra box.

Fuel prices are a big concern, but I've driven with an FI A20 for a year and isn't that much better indeed. My right foot is kinda heavy though! :lol:

[rjudgey]

Ok getting the picture now, I'll try and work out a price for a best bang for buck for you, probably just be valve backcut if seats are in good nick, and some port work, bronze guides I'd say are still worth it for the cost as the stock ones will wear out super quick with a camshaft!!

[bryan6732]

Ok getting the picture now, I'll try and work out a price for a best bang for buck for you, probably just be valve backcut if seats are in good nick, and some port work, bronze guides I'd say are still worth it for the cost as the stock ones will wear out super quick with a camshaft!!

Okay thanks I'll hear from you! :)

What can you guys say about the next Weber setup?

Set Weber 40 DCOE 107 / 106
Idle, 55 F21
Main, 132 F41
Venturi, 30

Two of those (so 2 dual Webers) for €160...

[rjudgey]

Too small you would have to re jet the pair off them completely your better off with 45's will be more but they'll be nearer to what you want in jetting and choke sizes etc.
Best choke size is minimum 38mm best 40mm the rest you can alter relatively cheaply.

[bryan6732]

Too small you would have to re jet the pair off them completely your better off with 45's will be more but they'll be nearer to what you want in jetting and choke sizes etc.
Best choke size is minimum 38mm best 40mm the rest you can alter relatively cheaply.

So you're saying 40mm is best. That'd be Weber 45 since their maximum choke size is 40 right?

[Australian 86]

thats a fair bit of money for a b20a, but i think long term it seems the slightly better choise. I'm going through the same conundrum atm... but i think i can get my whole engine swapped over for about 1.5k (done by myself though.)

[piter]

I voted for B20A option. I think it's better and more powerful base to further modifications. As well as with A20 you can go OBD1, use custom ECU and so on.

But there is third option which was already mentioned by someone and I think it's the best choice. Get healthy EDM B20A1/A2/A8. A1 came in 2g gen european Prelude and A2/A8 are from european CA5 Accord sedan. They produce between 133 and 138 HP.

This is almost same engine as JDM B20A. The main difference in EDM engines are ignition system - it uses distrubutor with vaccum advance (well known from A20) and different ECU. It's OBD0. The rest is basically the same.

[gfrg88]

imho, the b20a1/2/8 isn't worth the extra money just for ~15 more ponies :dunno:

[piter]

imho, the b20a1/2/8 isn't worth the extra money just for ~15 more ponies :dunno:
I disagree. I've driven Accord with A20A4 and I've got Prelude with B20A1. This ca.15HP makes a considerable difference, believe me.

All depends on how much you've to pay for this engine. You're from US so buying this engine from Europe doesn't make any sense. Shipping costs probably would be similar to getting JDM B20A.

But Bryan is from Netherlands. He should be able find this engine here if he wanted.

In Poland for example you can buy complete engine with tranny, driveshafts, ecu for 800$, sometimes even cheaper.

[MessyHonda]

build the A20. i had more fun with A than trying to build a jdm b20 that didnt work out on the end or get b series mounts.

[bryan6732]

Thanks again for the input guys!

I think I'm going with the A20. Got a spare engine, so I guess I'll just take the
head off and bring it to a machine shop to see what they can do...

But I'm still keeping all my options open, just to see what happens. :)

[rjudgey]

In reality though EUDM B20A makes more power than 137bhp in good working order and well maintained in it's life with fresh service and good quality oem exhaust with 80-110k miles on the clock can put down 145-150bhp. Early D16ZC are reknown for extra power too putting down a good 135-140bhp over stock 125-130bhp.
Either way you go still going to get a lot of extra power, personally I'd maybe look at B20A with webers! mwahahahaha!!

[Ichiban]

I'd go with the edm b20A since you can get maintenance parts, then upgrade it to obd1 or jdm spec.

[bryan6732]

In reality though EUDM B20A makes more power than 137bhp in good working order and well maintained in it's life with fresh service and good quality oem exhaust with 80-110k miles on the clock can put down 145-150bhp. Early D16ZC are reknown for extra power too putting down a good 135-140bhp over stock 125-130bhp.
Either way you go still going to get a lot of extra power, personally I'd maybe look at B20A with webers! mwahahahaha!!


I'd go with the edm b20A since you can get maintenance parts, then upgrade it to obd1 or jdm spec.

So in fact this B20A1 from 2nd gen Prelude is the same engine as the JDM B20A,
just a little downgraded in performance through different cams, dizzy and ECU?
Correct me if I'm wrong!

[rjudgey]

Yes correct it is just a slightly detuned version, same head just suspect cams have a slightly different profile. CR ratio I believe is the same at 9.4:1 oh i think the JDM one has a dual stage inlet the EUDM one has same inlet as std EFI 3G accord or 2G prelude USDM SI.

[AccordEpicenter]

A series all the way. The B20a is a fantastic motor but parts are hard to find and are seriously expensive. Youll be wayyy ahead in the wallet department if you stay A20. If you want to spend 2-3k and run 15 sec 1/4 miles then the B20a is your engine, but for the same money spent in the right areas, you could be running mid 13s with an A20. A20 turbo is the most cost effective way to go fast hands down, convert to obd1 and shoot for 10-12psi boost stock long block. You should have no real engine longevity issues even on the stock long block if its in good shape and the tuning is good. For the money, there is no cheaper way to go fast: head work, carbs, valves/springs/retainers/cam and all the machine work isnt cheap at all and you wont make nearly as much power...

put it this way:

Stock a20-T: 220whp/200wtq 13.3@103mph

Stock B20a 140whp/110wtq 15.3@89mph

Edit:My old setup running 13s was on an entirely stock a20 (intake manifold all the way to oil pan) save for dsm 450cc injectors and also on stock 195/60/14 all seasons running a piggyback UNTUNED. The car all sorted out should have ran mid 12s with that 105mph trap speed

[bryan6732]

Even on a stock block with the "high" compression you don't have any longevity issues?
And you're saying just obd1 conversion, so you haven't got a standalone EMS?

Yay post #500! lol

[hondalude86]

I also agree, boost is the cheapest easiest way to make power. There is several things i would do differnt if i did my build again. First thing, start with an a20 block and fi head. Buy all the same parts all over again (pistons rods, everything) break down and get the roland A20 intake manifold. Of course id get the 83mm pistons. Port and polish my head myself tye first time and torque my arp studs down to 90lbs! Right now with a poorly sealed heaf gasket, my compression tested yeilded 180psi at 5300 ft above sea level. Thats close to 200psi at sea level! Thats a huge increase over stock! Bottm line, you already startin better off than me! Going to the A3 head with the roland manifold gives you the ability to move tye kotor around different buikds. Get bored makeing 160whp na, go turbo/fi/b16 inlet manifold. Wreck the car and can only find fi chassis worth driving make the swap. A built fi motor with carbs in a carb body is the way to go, otherwise follow my huild to a t!

[stat1K]

so is a real b-swap not an option or?

[AccordEpicenter]

stock compression is 9.3:1 in an A20A3; that is not very high for boost. There are guys around boosting stock S2000s with 11:1 compression. When I pulled my pistons on my stock boosted A20A3 with 135k miles they looked great, and I was running 13psi, I had main bearing issues with that motor. And youll have much fewer problems going obd1 then standalone and its cheaper too. If your really gonna build the motor, at least put forged pistons and rods (pistons are still the weak link) and ditch the A20 intake mani and get an AEBS or at least a B16 intake mani and re drill. Make sure you portmatch the head to match the intake manifold.

[obdriver6]

so is a real b-swap not an option or?

^^This?

[ShyBoyCA6]

Stock compression is 8:8.1

[AccordEpicenter]

Stock compression is 8:8.1

not in an A20 its not

[bryan6732]

so is a real b-swap not an option or?

B16A (€2200 / 2800USD) and B18C (€3300 / 4300USD) in my opinion are too expensive for what you get.
Have been thinking about a B20B, but they aren't easy to find.

That leaves B20A...

I still can't decide which way to go. Might just do the FI swap in springtime and save up for something big in the future.

CR for carbed is 9.2:1 and FI has 9.4:1.
At least in Europe, don't know if there's a difference between us and the US...

[ShyBoyCA6]

yeah there is a slight difference in CR cause of Emissions... the A20a4 has a slight bump in power than the A3. i think your better off building a A20A4 from the ground up, with a bit of work on the engine. you could probably make 135 or 140 hp. thats like a honda civic with vtec :)

[AccordEpicenter]

In usdm/cdm accords it's 9.1:1 and 9.3:1 for fuel injected accords....

[gfrg88]

what about just good ol' LS? There's tons of potential for it. Turbo, NA, LSVTEC, etc. They're fairly cheap..2cents..

[bryan6732]

LS is B-series w/o vtec right? LSVtec sounds interesting.
Found a B18B from an importer here in The Netherlands for 700 euros shipped (without tranny).
But some other B-series trannies would fit as well I guess.

How much of a power gain would that be compared to A20?

But wouldn't B20(vtec) be better in that case?
There's no replacement for displacement, right? ;)
Stock it's less powerful, but with a vtec head and intake/exhaust it should give more power.
I'd imagine that would be a swap similarly complicated as LSvtec.

[obdriver6]

LS is the model of the integra which came with B18A-B and yes its non-vtec. As long as the tranny is cable than yes (a lot simpler). I know that it would be an improvement over your A20 but I'm not sure by how much and yes t0he B20v would be the best choice since it is bigger.

[rjudgey]

My A20A4's with a fresh built bottom end, lots of headwork, big valves, mild cam, 2.5" exhaust, header, Weber DCOE 45's make 200bhp, now the same done to a B20A could be good for 210-220bhp, with a larger bore and higher CR pistons with a more aggressive cams a little bit more 230-240bhp