Race Car Issues

[Beck5953]

I have been having problems with the race car lately. I will start off by saying that since i put the new engine in it the PGMFI light on the dash has been on. We took it to the track and did some hot laps, the car did great with no issues. On the way home we decided to stop and pressure wash the engine bay. Then when we got home and i was unloading it and it acted like it was instantly being turned of and back on again. I then noticed that every time it cut out, the PGMFI light would turn off, then back on again. Long story short every time the engine cuts out the light turns off. Does anyone have any idea what it could be?
And is revving these engines to 6500-6800 rpm too much for them to handle in stock form?
Thanks


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[JohnBoy]

sounds like you got water in the distributor.

[Beck5953]

sounds like you got water in the distributor.

Ok, i will check tonight and see.
Thanks


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[Beck5953]

Nope, the distributor is dry...


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[JohnBoy]

Nope, the distributor is dry...


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have you tried starting it again? if the only thing you did is presser wash it. it has to do with water in dis, coil, or fuel filter but that would be rare or the air filter could be wet.

[Beck5953]

No, i dont have a battery for it atm, had to use it for my dd. I will try starting it again once i get a battery.


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[lostforawhile]

bisimoto makes stronger valve springs, there are a number of performance parts available now for these cars, what do the rules limit you too? check out cheddas auto, he now makes some awesome rear upper control arms and aluminum rear arms, that are much stronger then the factory steel lower control arms

[Beck5953]

bisimoto makes stronger valve springs, there are a number of performance parts available now for these cars, what do the rules limit you too? check out cheddas auto, he now makes some awesome rear upper control arms and aluminum rear arms, that are much stronger then the factory steel lower control arms

It is a completely stock class.


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[JohnBoy]

so its a hornet/roadrun class racecar?

[lostforawhile]

It is a completely stock class.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkthey would never be able to tell the valve springs, or you can use the prelude ones, it would be hard for someone familiar with the car to tell the difference, let alone the average person

[Beck5953]

they would never be able to tell the valve springs, or you can use the prelude ones, it would be hard for someone familiar with the car to tell the difference, let alone the average person

Very true, are the valve springs the only weakness of that high rpm?



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[JohnBoy]

the reason im ask if it is a hornet roadrunner to is some places will even allow adjustable cam gears as well since it not a performance enhancer really. a lot of the time you just drop the car adjust camber right side in left side out. pull all heater and a/c. remove power steering. cut or remover front right brake. tires sized to the track. and if you wanted you can even remover the alternator and run just off the battery you just have to have it on a charger between each race.

[Beck5953]

the reason im ask if it is a hornet roadrunner to is some places will even allow adjustable cam gears as well since it not a performance enhancer really. a lot of the time you just drop the car adjust camber right side in left side out. pull all heater and a/c. remove power steering. cut or remover front right brake. tires sized to the track. and if you wanted you can even remover the alternator and run just off the battery you just have to have it on a charger between each race.

Sorry, i didnt see your response haha.
Here are the rules i have to follow. http://i-76speedway.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:2014-hornets&catid=55:rules&Itemid=53


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[Beck5953]

Figured out the problem! It was the ecu, idles much smoother now, and throttle feels way more responsive. If i continue to run it 6500-6800 rpm is it going to hurt anything? Does anyone know where valve float is in a stock a20?

[lostforawhile]

Figured out the problem! It was the ecu, idles much smoother now, and throttle feels way more responsive. If i continue to run it 6500-6800 rpm is it going to hurt anything? Does anyone know where valve float is in a stock a20?
I would overhaul the head to be safe, you can get brand new valves from melling, they sell them on ebay all the time, plus most parts stores can order them, the part numbers are on their site, I would swap the lude springs in or the bisi springs to be safe, change the timing belt and tensioner, factory is gates, you can get the kit anywhere they sell gates, if the oil pump is old, melling makes a replacement, I would have no issue trusting one of their pumps. The pump is considered a stock replacement . it's not a high flow, so no rules issues. You can shim the pressure relief spring in the oil filter housing to increase oil pressure, not a bad idea at high rpms

[Beck5953]

I would overhaul the head to be safe, you can get brand new valves from melling, they sell them on ebay all the time, plus most parts stores can order them, the part numbers are on their site, I would swap the lude springs in or the bisi springs to be safe, change the timing belt and tensioner, factory is gates, you can get the kit anywhere they sell gates, if the oil pump is old, melling makes a replacement, I would have no issue trusting one of their pumps. The pump is considered a stock replacement . it's not a high flow, so no rules issues. You can shim the pressure relief spring in the oil filter housing to increase oil pressure, not a bad idea at high rpms

Thanks for all the great info! I wont be able to afford any upgrades for a lil while so hopefully it holds up til then.



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[lostforawhile]

Thanks for all the great info! I wont be able to afford any upgrades for a lil while so hopefully it holds up til then.



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I've seen those melling pumps sell on ebay for under 50 dollars new if you dont know how old the timing belt and tensioner is replace them

[lostforawhile]

I installed a coolant pressure sensor on my street car, good idea for a race car too, if you have a catastrophic failure such as a hose, the temp gauge wont go up, as it depends on the coolant to register, it may even go down because it's exposed to air instead of coolant. With one of those sensors, it will immediately trigger a warning lamp if pressure in the system goes away

[lostforawhile]

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9749

[Beck5953]

I will probably get an oil pressure gauge so I can watch the pressure before I replace the oil pump. When I save up the money to do it i will probably get bisi valve springs. As far as all the other stuff I probably wont wory about them unless it becomes an issue. It is a budget class so I am kinda limited to what i can spend. Thanks for all the great info!

[lostforawhile]

I will probably get an oil pressure gauge so I can watch the pressure before I replace the oil pump. When I save up the money to do it i will probably get bisi valve springs. As far as all the other stuff I probably wont wory about them unless it becomes an issue. It is a budget class so I am kinda limited to what i can spend. Thanks for all the great info!
there are supposed to be stock lude valve springs that can be swapped in, but I'm not sure which, but they are stronger. for handling, replace the worn out rubber radiius rod bushings with the moog ones, they upgraded the stock replacements to poly, much much better and cheap,also considered a stock replacement, moog also makes the problem solver tie rod ends with the grease fitting, much better then stock plus you can force grease through them after a race to flush out the grit, it says you can remove the dash, but can't gut the car? also it says you can't have flammable materials in the car, yet can't gut it? I would think you would have to remove the rear seats and the headliner, due to the foam. If you can take out the dash,the heat and AC box, blower etc, thats a lot of weight, do they allow you to remove the AC? I would think not being able to remove it would cause issues with releasing r12 in a crash

[lostforawhile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1hzbEPuA7k

[Beck5953]

there are supposed to be stock lude valve springs that can be swapped in, but I'm not sure which, but they are stronger. for handling, replace the worn out rubber radiius rod bushings with the moog ones, they upgraded the stock replacements to poly, much much better and cheap,also considered a stock replacement, moog also makes the problem solver tie rod ends with the grease fitting, much better then stock plus you can force grease through them after a race to flush out the grit, it says you can remove the dash, but can't gut the car? also it says you can't have flammable materials in the car, yet can't gut it? I would think you would have to remove the rear seats and the headliner, due to the foam. If you can take out the dash,the heat and AC box, blower etc, thats a lot of weight, do they allow you to remove the AC? I would think not being able to remove it would cause issues with releasing r12 in a crash

I would love to remove the dash and ac, but the cage is in the way now. I have no idea what i was thinking when i did that.


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[lostforawhile]

I would love to remove the dash and ac, but the cage is in the way now. I have no idea what i was thinking when i did that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkdash is plastic cut it apart in sections cut around the tubes just pull the sections from around the tubes , ac evaporator can be removed from under the dash as well as the blower, then you have clear areas to cut out sections

[Beck5953]

dash is plastic cut it apart in sections cut around the tubes just pull the sections from around the tubes , ac evaporator can be removed from under the dash as well as the blower, then you have clear areas to cut out sections

I will do that if I have problems with keeping up in a race. Still have never raced the car, only hot laps.


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[lostforawhile]

we have a number of people who have run these cars, I dont know exactly who is left but they have had success with them

[Beck5953]

we have a number of people who have run these cars, I dont know exactly who is left but they have had success with them

I hope i have the same luck. I have heard that allot of people that run A series have problems with spinning bearings.


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[Dr_Snooz]

The oil intake is on the left side of the pan. Going around in counter-clockwise circles throws it to the wrong end of the pan and you get oil starvation. Might be something to look into fixing before it throws a bearing.

[Beck5953]

I have overfilled it by 3/4 of a quart. What else can be done?


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[2oodoor]

I think its the 1800 lude engine that uses double valve springs that is a bolt on hidden mod. Depending on your gear ratio and how the car fits the track at WOT, you have an option to use 15" wheels that wouldnt be noticed, saturn Ion steelies look identical to Honda 14 & 13 " steelies other than being 15" lol the right tire for those would be awesome. Also use non acorn lug nuts, seems like the right front wheels like to come off, notice most acorn nuts only use two to three threads that actually have any tightening torque on them,
Z max or Pro-blend are good oil addives ( the thin stuff) they impregnate metal to help run cooler and would help out when oil cant get there fast enough. I am not talking about vicosity "improvers" those are useless for cornering oil starvation.

[lostforawhile]

I have overfilled it by 3/4 of a quart. What else can be done?


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do the rules prevent better wheel studs? these use standard metric wheel studs, and you can put ARP on, not much more then cheap studs, The ARP are much stronger and I sure wouldn't want to race on 25 year old fatigued wheel studs. I would think they would allow stronger wheel studs as a safety item, no one wants a car to lose a wheel in the middle of the race

[Beck5953]

Thanks for all the help and sugestions! Baffling the oil pan prevents the oil from moving as much, correct?


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[lostforawhile]

this guy used to make windage trays and scrapers for the A20, I'm sure he still will make them, I'm sure he has the patterns, just not listed on his site Home (http://www.crank-scrapers.com/)

[Beck5953]

this guy used to make windage trays and scrapers for the A20, I'm sure he still will make them, I'm sure he has the patterns, just not listed on his site Home (http://www.crank-scrapers.com/)

What do windage trays and crank scrapers do?


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[JohnBoy]

What do windage trays and crank scrapers do?


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they help keep excessive oil of the crank

[JohnBoy]

The oil intake is on the left side of the pan. Going around in counter-clockwise circles throws it to the wrong end of the pan and you get oil starvation. Might be something to look into fixing before it throws a bearing.

I had a problem with this an blowing rear main's. tell we added a sump extender so the oil would get trapped in it. then we put a oil catch can in it and had to keep the fuel tank at lest half full.

[Beck5953]

I had a problem with this an blowing rear main's. tell we added a sump extender so the oil would get trapped in it. then we put a oil catch can in it and had to keep the fuel tank at lest half full.

What do you mean by keep the fuel tank half full


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[vteckiller]

Obviously the fuel tank needs a baffle or sort of help. What he's saying is the car probably gets gas starvation and gets air instead of gas. Boggin it down.

[Beck5953]

Obviously the fuel tank needs a baffle or sort of help. What he's saying is the car probably gets gas starvation and gets air instead of gas. Boggin it down.

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Never thought about that being a problem.


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[vteckiller]

Can you run a fuel cell instead? Would drop weight from old tank and the weight from gas. Like maybe 5gallons in a cell instead of 10-15 in stock tank wouldn't have to worry about corners. Just a thought. *shrug*

[lostforawhile]

Can you run a fuel cell instead? Would drop weight from old tank and the weight from gas. Like maybe 5gallons in a cell instead of 10-15 in stock tank wouldn't have to worry about corners. Just a thought. *shrug*
I think he posted the rules, I dont see why they wouldn't allow a cell, it's safety equipment. I'm not sure what their rule is. Any organization that banned items that make a driver safer, I would have to wonder about, I would think a cell would be mandatory

[lostforawhile]

it says if the factory tank is behind the rear axle it must be replaced with a minimum 8 gallon fuel cell, so I'm assuming you have the option to add one anyway. I wouldn't want to run any kind of race car without a cell,period

[JohnBoy]

it says if the factory tank is behind the rear axle it must be replaced with a minimum 8 gallon fuel cell, so I'm assuming you have the option to add one anyway. I wouldn't want to run any kind of race car without a cell,period
most track say you can it just has to be replaced back in to the same spot.


Obviously the fuel tank needs a baffle or sort of help. What he's saying is the car probably gets gas starvation and gets air instead of gas. Boggin it down.
spot on! the frist time it happened I was I first with two to go. then I hit the straight all was fine then the corner and the hole pack seemed to pass and got 14th

[Beck5953]

Can you run a fuel cell instead? Would drop weight from old tank and the weight from gas. Like maybe 5gallons in a cell instead of 10-15 in stock tank wouldn't have to worry about corners. Just a thought. *shrug*

I can run a fuel cel but didnt see the point if u dont have to. The class is a budget class so i have to spend as little money as possible.


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[lostforawhile]

I can run a fuel cel but didnt see the point if u dont have to. The class is a budget class so i have to spend as little money as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkit's not about the money when it comes to safety gear, it's about someone hitting you, and you walking away or getting toasted, most classes with a money limit wont count any safety gear towards that. Thats one area where you dont want to go cheap, racing is racing, whether it's high budget or low budget, never look at money when it comes to something that may allow you to live to race another day

[Beck5953]

it's not about the money when it comes to safety gear, it's about someone hitting you, and you walking away or getting toasted, most classes with a money limit wont count any safety gear towards that. Thats one area where you dont want to go cheap, racing is racing, whether it's high budget or low budget, never look at money when it comes to something that may allow you to live to race another day

Your right they don't count safety gear towards the limit. But how is a fuel cell going to make the car any safer?


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[Vanilla Sky]

They hold up to impact better than your stock fuel tank. Fuel starvation can be handled better, too, with a good baffled fuel cell.

My Melling oil pump was $47 shipped on eBay. Very nice part, too.

If you can baffle the oil pan and change the pickup, do so. I haven't read the rule book, but being a budget class, I can see that being in the rules.

[lostforawhile]

Your right they don't count safety gear towards the limit. But how is a fuel cell going to make the car any safer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk here's a really good writeup on them,this will help explain everything, they are one of the best pieces of safety gear you can invest in,other then your helmet, Fuel Safe Racing Fuel Cells and Bladder Tanks (http://www.fuelsafe.com/white_papers/fuel-cell-facts.html)

[Beck5953]

Now we have another issue... The car is only running on 3 cylinders. It has spark, compression, and fuel. we have run out of ideas.

[2oodoor]

I would Try blocking the egr, check injectors with a noid light, make sure the pvc system is checked thouroughly

[Beck5953]

I would Try blocking the egr, check injectors with a noid light, make sure the pvc system is checked thouroughly

Farther explanation please haha i have no idea what those three things are...


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[vteckiller]

25 yr old tank. Or a cell designed for race applications. It's your project was just saying. Plus with option of running a smaller cell than the tank itself.

[kentwat]

Farther explanation please haha i have no idea what those three things are...


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Have you downloaded the manual? It will help a lot in figuring out what each part/system does. One spark plug must not be firing. Check each one with it running. Easy way disconnect when it is off start and see if it is missing. repeat until miss found.

[Beck5953]

Have you downloaded the manual? It will help a lot in figuring out what each part/system does. One spark plug must not be firing. Check each one with it running. Easy way disconnect when it is off start and see if it is missing. repeat until miss found.

I have a manual in the shop, it did me no good. Its not spark, we have spark on all 4 cylinders. We think it might be a fuel issue.


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[Dr_Snooz]

The car is only running on 3 cylinders.

People post this a lot but it's quite hard to determine that with any certainty. Usually when people say this, they mean that the car is running rough. What do you mean?

[Beck5953]

People post this a lot but it's quite hard to determine that with any certainty. Usually when people say this, they mean that the car is running rough. What do you mean?

I mean after the car has been running for a minute or two, you can still hold your hand on the manifold from cylinder 1. All the others are hot enough you cant touch them


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[Hauntd ca3]

run the motor for a minute, stop it and pull the plug, if its wet you have fuel and prob no spark.
just because you have spark when you stick a plug in the lead and earth it to the motor, dosnt mean its in the cylinder.
a few hundred psi of pressure changes things a lot for a spark plug

[Beck5953]

run the motor for a minute, stop it and pull the plug, if its wet you have fuel and prob no spark.
just because you have spark when you stick a plug in the lead and earth it to the motor, dosnt mean its in the cylinder.
a few hundred psi of pressure changes things a lot for a spark plug

I tried that, plug was bone dry.
Thanks for the suggestion tho


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[Beck5953]

We have discovered the car is halfway running on cyl 4. Its just kinda weak on that cylinder. I have decided to just run it, if it blows up, then i get a new engine haha i will update based on what happens. Hopefully i can get some pictures and videos to show u guys


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[Beck5953]

I have raced two times since the last time i updated. Got 3rd and 4th the first night. But last night i won a race!! Beating an integra and a prelude. Beating a B20 and a B18!!! In my pos A series that runs like crap!! Just goes to show how strong these engines are.


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[Beck5953]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/08/eneve2y4.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/08/9aruzura.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/08/uvynuzap.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/08/eguhasa3.jpg


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[2ndGenGuy]

Show em what's up! Nice work!

[Beck5953]

Show em what's up! Nice work!

Thanks! I plan on it [emoji12]


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[Beck5953]

Have another race tonight! Wish me luck!


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[Beck5953]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/94f2095fddc333a4ce604818cd4d9448.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/a742215c20a2bcc2e6a60029b522992d.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/23/d45d1fc43bb01dbc57d8ae07794d9d64.jpg

Got 2nd place in the heat race and the main. Lead 5 or 6 laps between the two! Pretty proud of this car.


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[Dr_Snooz]

Congrats!

[Beck5953]

Puting it away for the winter :( http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/13/c758aec39097ddc7e40ad9294e4f03a9.jpg


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