The great VTEC debate.

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Alright newb, you wanna play games :) First of all, I quoted my entry, then I asked "WHY NOT" ? I know what VTEC is, so please do not come here and preach to the choir. Personal experience dictates its use on a stock engine with some good outcomes, although not as good as Adrian's. I am not talking and never said big power or anything of the sort. I simply suggested its use regardless with the point being to adjust. Now again, tell me why not and that it will be bad for the stock engine in all ways and I will rescind, otherwise, please rethink your strategy.

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Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down.. My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever. Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC. Why give somebody the wrong advice. I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever. As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif

Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down..
Again, an opinion. I failed to see that with my own eyes but I am just a liar. Opinions help somewhat, but you have to consider the source in some cases.

My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever.
Which explains my reason for even bringing it up. A future possibility and the foundation of a good start by doing so.

Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC.
Exactly, I was being generic. I never told her, "Yeah, buy one today, plug it in and watch your car soar to a warp factor of 1 under 3k RPMS"!

Why give somebody the wrong advice.
Exactly, which is why I am contradicting you.

I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever.
It is good to have feelings, it means you are alive, but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. I never stated the VAFC's purpose with the STD or AUTO, just a generic use and its possibilites.

As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif
I am sorry, but you are what you are. There is no changing that. If it bothers you, then build a bridge and get over it.

You are right, I am trying to get her to screw up her car and that was my honest suggestion. You caught me, I am a dumb poster with no knowledge and post here to look like someones jackass. :rolleyes: :D

Oh, I keep forgetting...:) and :D and :flash:

I am not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect, just stating in a positive tone. :wave:

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Never said it was bad. Just useless. You wont make ur car faster, just slow it down..
Again, an opinion. I failed to see that with my own eyes but I am just a liar. Opinions help somewhat, but you have to consider the source in some cases.

My reply was for the get a "VTEC CONTROLLER" Comment. Which you made, because she said her crossover takes forever.
Which explains my reason for even bringing it up. A future possibility and the foundation of a good start by doing so.

Nobody mentioned the other uses of the VAFC.
Exactly, I was being generic. I never told her, "Yeah, buy one today, plug it in and watch your car soar to a warp factor of 1 under 3k RPMS"!

Why give somebody the wrong advice.
Exactly, which is why I am contradicting you.

I also have a feeling her prelude is automatic, since she claims her 4400k crossover takes forever.
It is good to have feelings, it means you are alive, but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. I never stated the VAFC's purpose with the STD or AUTO, just a generic use and its possibilites.

As fer the Newbie comment.. http://www.hondahookup.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/gay.gif
I am sorry, but you are what you are. There is no changing that. If it bothers you, then build a bridge and get over it.

You are right, I am trying to get her to screw up her car and that was my honest suggestion. You caught me, I am a dumb poster with no knowledge and post here to look like someones jackass. :rolleyes: :D

Oh, I keep forgetting...:) and :D and :flash:

I am not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect, just stating in a positive tone. :wave:

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AGAIN.. It is a proven fact in the HONDA TUNING WORLD, that when you advance a vtec crossover( Specially in a stock car ) you lose power. That why's every chipped ECU or Hondata system purchased has the crossover retarded. This same reason you do not advance stock crossover. LOL@ the newbie comment again. That other extra shyt is gay..

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Originally posted by 86dxAccord
AGAIN.. It is a proven fact in the HONDA TUNING WORLD, that when you advance a vtec crossover( Specially in a stock car ) you lose power. That why's every chipped ECU or Hondata system purchased has the crossover retarded. This same reason you do not advance stock crossover. LOL@ the newbie comment again. That other extra shyt is gay..

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This will be my last post, I promise. :lol

Ask me if I even care about being in the proverbial "HONDA TUNING WORLD". :lol

I tune because I like it, not to please others or gain respect or whatever. It is a (now) fun hobby, as I am spending time on my real life goal, getting through med school. Go figure :rolleyes:

I own a honda, have worked on them for years, have personal experience with different aspects of not only hondas but also Nissans and mitsus; and don't see where a number of proven tuners, who are not sponsored by Apexi or any other VTEC controller maker have shown or proven otherwise.

Just some guy with a 1986 accord stating that he knows better. I tell you what, the macho I know more than you attitude stops now. If you want to continue making yourself look like a whatever, then do so.

It is an option to a modified or HONDATA ECU, for tuning. That is what it does, you can't paint it otherwise.

Again, your performance opinion may just well be due to improper tuning. I again was being vague and you fail to notice that I never mentioned "2 FAST 2 FURIOUS" types of speeds or anything crazy tuner like that. My take, if you have ever read any of my previous posts, is not for big bad ass performance, but mostly fuel economy which this will let you adjust somewhat. I did however post that it can help with power with proper adjustments.


The newbie comment sticks, as it appears that you have had this experience in the past. Plain and simple, you are new to the forum. Call it whatever you want, just deal with it.

Anyways, peace out! :flash: :D

I did not forget this time. If you want, I can go at this until I leave work in 30 minutes and continue tomorrow. You will not change my experience and feelings about the VAFC.

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Originally posted by zero.counter
This will be my last post, I promise. :lol

Just some guy with a 1986 accord stating that he knows better. I tell you what, the macho I know more than you attitude stops now. If you want to continue making yourself look like a whatever, then do so.

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dats funny. Remember this comment? but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. U still wrong! Done!

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Originally posted by 86dxAccord
dats funny. Remember this comment? but you are assuming, which is a bad trait and dangerous. U still wrong! Done!

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So then I guess that you don't own at least an 86 accord, and you are admitting that you don't know better than me. U still wrong and are wasting my time. I barely assume, I sometimes make vague comments to cover my track (I learned from my wife). I remember it well. :lol

BTW, I don't always practice what I preach anyways, otherwise my front yard would look nice and my garage would be clean! :cool:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm

All i have to say is that lowering your vtec point DOESNT always mean it is good. I am running an LS/VTEC w/ CTR cams and a fair bit of work. I had a spoon chip and it kicked vtec at 4400. When my car hit this RPM it went NO WHERE. Before this point it moved and once 5200 came it moved again. but from 4400 to5100 it was dog shit. Now I have chip that kicks vtec at 5500 and I must say it pulls hard up to it and it pulls hard through it to 8200. All I am saying is lowering vtec isnt always a good idea.

Ok maybe I should explain my point a little better. I want to race my car. So I'll keep my 3G as a beater because its reliable and cheap on gas and insurance. It would cost me more in a month to drive the Teg around on a daily basis and sell the 3G than keeping it around. I want the DCOEs on it because it is a hell of a lot cheaper than a comprable PGMFI setup. So I want to run it old school without an ECU and be able to smoke GSRs. This is going to be a fun project. I'll have the car up and running by june and have all the parts in it by the end of next year.

Look guys, I never said to purchase a VTEC VAFC controller to burn rubber and increase your performance two fold, I argued that it was not totally useless and could be utilized for the gasoline concious folks out there. Not everyone is obsessed with racing, it's a phase for most people and a lapse in judgement for those not on or in a sanctioned event, track, or controlled environment for driving.

Kroy, I love your threads, they keep me sharp...

Hmmm.....I'm just going to vote I'm not going to say anything.

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Look guys, I never said to purchase a VTEC VAFC controller to burn rubber and increase your performance two fold, I argued that it was not totally useless and could be utilized for the gasoline concious folks out there. Not everyone is obsessed with racing, it's a phase for most people and a lapse in judgement for those not on or in a sanctioned event, track, or controlled environment for driving.

Kroy, I love your threads, they keep me sharp...

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Why would use a VAFC to save gas? The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

Why would use a VAFC to save gas?
I'm sorry, why not?

The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

Once you put in a VTEC controller, you can start the fuel saving. Furhter more you can improve the engine response starting at 4500 RPM. You take the choice instead of the ECU making the choice. If you are running a trip and you want to save fuel you can set up the VTEC to engage at 6500 RPM and you can save a lot of fuel. On the other end if you are "Racing" the car you can set it up at 4500 and if you shift from 2nd to 3rd you will be always inside the VTEC power band. Some of the VTEC controllers can also setup the fuel injectors. But yes, with cam upgrades + more for the performance.

Again, whatever :rolleyes:

I apologize for your misunderstanding of my posts and the fact that I have stated over and over that I am not stressing its' use for power gains, but fuel economy as well. I have seen it and so have others. I tell you what, venture over to Automotive Forums and Temple of VTEC and tell them otherwise. While many of them share your opinion, many also share mine. Kind of like, "tastes great, less filling".

BTW, I thought you were out of here?

Oh, I forgot.

If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover.

Are you suggesting that the girl with the prelude swap out her VTEC? Ludicrous I tell you. My statement was point more along the lines of, "do with what you got and make the most of it". I don't know about you.

Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

There is that power thing again, which I have stated over and over as not being my goal.

:lol :lol :lol

Quote:

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Why would use a VAFC to save gas?
I'm sorry, why not?

The crossover is usually set @ 4400k from Honda. I see no reason for Gas conscious driver to be near the crossover. No Crossover, Gas saved and no Need for a VAFC. If ur looking to save gas, #1 buy a non-vtec engine. DX/GS trims and you would not have to worry about GAS Consumption after the crossover. Also, when you to advance the crossover on a stock engine , it beings loose to power @ 4400k.

Once you put in a VTEC controller, you can start the fuel saving. Furhter more you can improve the engine response starting at 4500 RPM. You take the choice instead of the ECU making the choice. If you are running a trip and you want to save fuel you can set up the VTEC to engage at 6500 RPM and you can save a lot of fuel. On the other end if you are "Racing" the car you can set it up at 4500 and if you shift from 2nd to 3rd you will be always inside the VTEC power band. Some of the VTEC controllers can also setup the fuel injectors. But yes, with cam upgrades + more for the performance.

Again, whatever :rolleyes:

I apologize for your misunderstanding of my posts and the fact that I have stated over and over that I am not stressing its' use for power gains, but fuel economy as well. I have seen it and so have others. I tell you what, venture over to Automotive Forums and Temple of VTEC and tell them otherwise. While many of them share your opinion, many also share mine. Kind of like, "tastes great, less filling".

BTW, I thought you were out of here?

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Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument. If you taking a long trip there is no need to retard the crossover , because you will not be near the crossover. Let's just say you retard the crossover, this means that when u reach 4400k the vtec will not engage. This is where your theory goes poo! The stock cams are only made to supply power till 4400k efficiently( You losing power now ), when more power is required the secondary lobe takes over and lets more air in. Since you retarded the crossover, the vtec engine begins to lose power and it has to work harder to meet the higher rpms. So if the engine is working harder, how is that efficient? This is why Honda gave it's customers choices. SOHC NON-VTEC, DOHC NON-VTEC, SOHC-3STAGE VTEC, SOHC- VTEC-E, SOHC-VTEC & DOHC-VTEC. There enough choices for the gas conscious driver * no need for a VAFC on a stock car . A VAFC won't change your stock cam-profile, so why retard or advance? Note: The best way to tune a VAFC is to dyno Tune it. I was done last night and today is a new day. Too each his own!

this is a lovely thread,whee!!!!

vtec is ok,but it all depens on what you want...for you emmissions controlled peeps,its nice...but its nothing really revolutionary,I dont like messing with all that high tech ecu shit anyways...give me a A20 and some sidedrafts and I will be happy..

Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument.

Stop right there. I won't and am not. It is you who began this crusade to contradict my innocent post and turn it into a pissing contest.

If you taking a long trip there is no need to retard the crossover , because you will not be near the crossover. Let's just say you retard the crossover, this means that when u reach 4400k the vtec will not engage. This is where your theory goes poo!

I am sorry, theory? You mean what I have done right? Oh well, some people never learn.

The stock cams are only made to supply power till 4400k efficiently( You losing power now ), when more power is required the secondary lobe takes over and lets more air in. Since you retarded the crossover, the vtec engine begins to lose power and it has to work harder to meet the higher rpms. So if the engine is working harder, how is that efficient?

I have a simple question for you, all theoretical discussion aside. Have you ever adjusted a VTEC engine, DOHC of course, for the sake of fuel consumption? I mean, ahve you really? If not, then you are speaking out of reading articles and posts and opinions of others.

This is why Honda gave it's customers choices. SOHC NON-VTEC, DOHC NON-VTEC, SOHC-3STAGE VTEC, SOHC- VTEC-E, SOHC-VTEC & DOHC-VTEC. There enough choices for the gas conscious driver * no need for a VAFC on a stock car .

That is if you are unhappy with its' setup. I mean, is this not why tuners tune? Because they are unsatisfied with their current setup and sometimes don't feel like swapping engines or purchasing staged ECUs and crave more?

A VAFC won't change your stock cam-profile, so why retard or advance?

I never said that it could. As for the last question, read my last several posts...


Note: The best way to tune a VAFC is to dyno Tune it.

Well, as I stated before, my argument was vague but has substance even evidence. Dyno tuning is just what its' name perceives, which helps tune the entire setup especially the VAFC. I think I learned that 5 years ago when I installed my first one and said, "duurrr, what r deez little papers with pictures and words all over them in tha box"?

I was done last night and today is a new day. Too each his own!

Stay and keep up all you want, my shift does not end until 12:00 A.M. CST anyways and I am not busy.

I enjoy the company! :lol

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Again! I understand perfectly how a vtec controller works. But again you are failing to convince me on the whole fuel saving argument.

I have a simple question for you, all theoretical discussion aside. Have you ever adjusted a VTEC engine, DOHC of course, for the sake of fuel consumption? I mean, ahve you really? If not, then you are speaking out of reading articles and posts and opinions of others.


I enjoy the company! :lol

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No offcourse not. I just own one for hell of saying I own one. YOU NEWBIE!

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Originally posted by 86dxAccord
No offcourse not. I just own one for hell of saying I own one. YOU NEWBIE!

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:lol That was great!


CIAO

M.

This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.

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Originally posted by kroy
This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.

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Dual Carbs on a A20 or JDMB20a is totally doable! Now Carbs on a B-Series.. Dats Just plain tardish!

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Originally posted by kroy
This is freakin great. I love heated debates. This is why i even started this thread. Keep them coming guys.

I can't believe no one has jumped on me for mentioning I am going to put Carbureators on it.

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Actually bro, I am done. I am getting started with another guy on one of the 240sx forums I post on.

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Originally posted by zero.counter
Actually bro, I am done. I am getting started with another guy on one of the 240sx forums I post on.

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Got Mid-Life Crisis? :wave:

hey zero whats the stock rearend ratio in the 240?

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Originally posted by 86dxAccord
Dual Carbs on a A20 or JDMB20a is totally doable! Now Carbs on a B-Series.. Dats Just plain tardish!

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I am putting Dual carbs on a B20 CRV motor, not the 3G.:D