Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Ok this is where it mounts, sits right up high on the firewall, working on a piece that mounts to the firewall, it's basically a long block, one end goes to the canister carb inlet, the other goes to the valve that is open when the engine is running. the two carb bowls connect in the middle, and the bottom fitting goes to a check valve,this will allow the carbs to vent in an emergency if the valve fails. it's a little more complex then that,but thats the simple version,. basically when the engine is running, the vaccume valve opens letting the carbs vent to atmosphere,when the valve closes, the vapors are absorbed by the canister to be reburned later. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...e/S4028737.jpg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Ok it's almost ready to hook this to the carbs, waiting on a couple of 1/8 bsp to 1/8 npt adaptors, yes datsun used that stupid thread too. how this works is simple, one end is connected to the carb port on the canister, the other has a check valve in case of control valve failure, the bowl vent connections is in the middle, and the carb bowl lines connect on eithier side, basically there is a vaccume controlled valve, when the engine is running, it opens and lets atmospheric pressure into the bowls, when the engine stops,it closes and all fuel vapor gets absorbed by the canister to be reburned. if the valve failes, vaccume on the bowls will cause the check valve to open,keeping the engine from stalling.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020046-3.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020047-3.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020048-3.jpg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
More good stuff from Lost Labs. Just don't disclose the location of the flux capacitor.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr_Snooz
More good stuff from Lost Labs. Just don't disclose the location of the flux capacitor.
NEVER!!! lol. I just hate to waste gas while a car is sitting, perfectly good gas just evaporating into the air. If it was cheap like when i was a teenager, i wouldn''t care but it's kind of pricey now.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lostforawhile
NEVER!!! lol. I just hate to waste gas while a car is sitting, perfectly good gas just evaporating into the air. If it was cheap like when i was a teenager, i wouldn''t care but it's kind of pricey now.
Out of curiosity, what kind of fuel economy do you expect to get from this motor with all the modifications you've made?
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joay
Out of curiosity, what kind of fuel economy do you expect to get from this motor with all the modifications you've made?
I really could care less how much gas it uses while it's moving, i just hate to waste it while it's sitting. At least while it's moving it's getting converted to something useful like forward motion or noise. I also hate parking a car and having it reek of gas fumes from evaporation, system is pretty simple to hook back up. I'm keeping it and the PCV system it makes a big difference in keeping sludge out of your engine. I really don't think the mileage on the SU's will be that bad, they are pretty efficient. Not sure if you are old enough to remember but in the 70's, if you parked a number of cars together when it was hot,it would end up smelling like a gas station when you came back.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lostforawhile
I really could care less how much gas it uses while it's moving, i just hate to waste it while it's sitting. At least while it's moving it's getting converted to something useful like forward motion or noise. I also hate parking a car and having it reek of gas fumes from evaporation, system is pretty simple to hook back up. I'm keeping it and the PCV system it makes a big difference in keeping sludge out of your engine. I really don't think the mileage on the SU's will be that bad, they are pretty efficient. Not sure if you are old enough to remember but in the 70's, if you parked a number of cars together when it was hot,it would end up smelling like a gas station when you came back.
I'm old enough to remember the fuel odor coming from the cars when parked in a closed or underground garage. At least my engine run good enough to have the "crankcase fumes recirculation system" (a crude contraption consisting of a rubber hose from the top of the valve cover to a can with metal mesh inside and to the top of the air filter box) connected.
Those carburetors were pretty efficient in their time (1960s/1970s). The one I had experience with (Stromberg 150, UK) was quite easy to set up
Back then I wanted a two-carb setup but got discouraged by being told that tuning them was difficult; I never did it myself.
By the way, what kind of air filter are you planning to use? The setups I saw used a round, thin air filter sandwiched between a metal cover and a plate affixed on the side of the carb.
I also remember oiling them from time to time; unscrew the black caps and pouring some oil into them. What was that for?... now I'm old and I'm getting amnesia... never mind...
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ecogabriel
I'm old enough to remember the fuel odor coming from the cars when parked in a closed or underground garage. At least my engine run good enough to have the "crankcase fumes recirculation system" (a crude contraption consisting of a rubber hose from the top of the valve cover to a can with metal mesh inside and to the top of the air filter box) connected.
Those carburetors were pretty efficient in their time (1960s/1970s). The one I had experience with (Stromberg 150, UK) was quite easy to set up
Back then I wanted a two-carb setup but got discouraged by being told that tuning them was difficult; I never did it myself.
By the way, what kind of air filter are you planning to use? The setups I saw used a round, thin air filter sandwiched between a metal cover and a plate affixed on the side of the carb.
I also remember oiling them from time to time; unscrew the black caps and pouring some oil into them. What was that for?... now I'm old and I'm getting amnesia... never mind...
you can see them in the last picture, I ended up making my own because of clearance problems, I have to get some universal filter foam, then there is a stainless screen that fits over each one held in by a circlip.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lostforawhile
They look good... very good!!. And using a lathe to make them!! My dad used another machine (one used to make gears)... he made gears for almost anything. He knew the basics on how to operate a lathe.
Back to the air filters, I had seen something round in the photos but I could not see exactly what it was. The the other link it made it clear though.
I posted a link of an article that has a photo of the two SU-type carburetors I was familiar with. Those were two Stromberg carbs (175 CD-3VX)
A photo is somewhere in the middle of the page with intake, the two carbs, the air filters, and the crankcase ventilation "system" (a Y-shaped hose that discharged on top of each air filter and run between the carbs).
http://www.testdelayer.com.ar/dodge1500gt100.htm
Also, a link to a web page in the UK that sells parts and tools for those carbs. Are those parts available here?
http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/spares.html#Pierburg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ecogabriel
They look good... very good!!. And using a lathe to make them!! My dad used another machine (one used to make gears)... he made gears for almost anything. He knew the basics on how to operate a lathe.
Back to the air filters, I had seen something round in the photos but I could not see exactly what it was. The the other link it made it clear though.
I posted a link of an article that has a photo of the two SU-type carburetors I was familiar with. Those were two Stromberg carbs (175 CD-3VX)
A photo is somewhere in the middle of the page with intake, the two carbs, the air filters, and the crankcase ventilation "system" (a Y-shaped hose that discharged on top of each air filter and run between the carbs).
http://www.testdelayer.com.ar/dodge1500gt100.htm
Also, a link to a web page in the UK that sells parts and tools for those carbs. Are those parts available here?
http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/spares.html#Pierburg
well mine are Hitachi ones,they are the same thing with some improvements, mine are from a 72 datsun 510 sss, they were never sold here,but there are parts available,these carbs are coveted by guys with early Z cars, the Domestic versions of these carbs had all kinds of problems due to emissions, mine are the JDM version. parts are available through Z therapy in Cali and some other suppliers. I already changed float bowl tops to be able to use the Z floats and needle valves, the original floats and valves are really hard to find, I have mine but no way to service them. the Z tops also solved some clearance problems. The sss manifold I used has a pcv valve, same as any domestic Z car or early Datsun car. they are also metal so they can be soaked in solvent and cleaned. If you look at the picture of the air cleaner with the return springs, you see the PCV valve in the balance tube between the manifold. half of that tube is vaccume and half is coolant.originally the vents would have gone straight to the air cleaners, but this way, i can keep all the gas fumes out from under the hood,as well as reburn them. I'm not sure yet if i will run the inlet of the vaccume valve to an air cleaner,or put it's own small filter on it, I want to keep crud from ending up in the float bowls.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lostforawhile
well mine are Hitachi ones,they are the same thing with some improvements, mine are from a 72 datsun 510 sss, they were never sold here,but there are parts available,these carbs are coveted by guys with early Z cars, the Domestic versions of these carbs had all kinds of problems due to emissions, mine are the JDM version. parts are available through Z therapy in Cali and some other suppliers. I already changed float bowl tops to be able to use the Z floats and needle valves, the original floats and valves are really hard to find, I have mine but no way to service them. the Z tops also solved some clearance problems. The sss manifold I used has a pcv valve, same as any domestic Z car or early Datsun car. they are also metal so they can be soaked in solvent and cleaned. If you look at the picture of the air cleaner with the return springs, you see the PCV valve in the balance tube between the manifold. half of that tube is vaccume and half is coolant.originally the vents would have gone straight to the air cleaners, but this way, i can keep all the gas fumes out from under the hood,as well as reburn them. I'm not sure yet if i will run the inlet of the vaccume valve to an air cleaner,or put it's own small filter on it, I want to keep crud from ending up in the float bowls.
I thought the carbs were most likely Japanese. I saw on the other thread that the top of the bowls had a different color than the rest. I also noticed that the bowls are separated from the main body. Strombergs were one unit with the bowl attached at the bottom of the carb.
I still wonder why one had to add oil on the top cap. I was told back then that it made the jet needle more stable by dampening small changes in vacuum (or something like that).
Looks very cool -and very retro.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ecogabriel
I thought the carbs were most likely Japanese. I saw on the other thread that the top of the bowls had a different color than the rest. I also noticed that the bowls are separated from the main body. Strombergs were one unit with the bowl attached at the bottom of the carb.
I still wonder why one had to add oil on the top cap. I was told back then that it made the jet needle more stable by dampening small changes in vacuum (or something like that).
Looks very cool -and very retro.
the oil acts in the diaphram to dampen the needle movement it makes the piston act like an accelerator pump when it's damped, the biggest problem with these is people use the wrong oil and the carb doesn't function correctly, it's very important. you can change the characteristics of the carb by changing the piston spring and oil viscosity, it's all in the way they are tuned.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
They don't really have an acceleration pump; opening the throttle pushes the piston up.... one could see the stream of gas flowing off the jet nozzle as the needle moved up or down. Too heavy oil would retard reaction and too light would make it react for minuscule changes; the oil smoothed out the small variations.
For what I remember they were pretty easy to maintain, and quite reliable. They should work fine in your setup once you get them tuned. That would be something to watch
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ecogabriel
They don't really have an acceleration pump; opening the throttle pushes the piston up.... one could see the stream of gas flowing off the jet nozzle as the needle moved up or down. Too heavy oil would retard reaction and too light would make it react for minuscule changes; the oil smoothed out the small variations.
For what I remember they were pretty easy to maintain, and quite reliable. They should work fine in your setup once you get them tuned. That would be something to watch
exactly, the oil makes them act as if they had one, when the piston goes up it takes a second to drop causing a rich mixture when you accelerate, i possibly may use a valve in the purge circuit of this canister to only purge at high rpms also with an rpm switch, the little bit of extra fuel being purged from the canister may be enough to help protect against detonation. mixture slightly rich on acceleration is always a good thing. too lean burns a hole in your pistons. I have the how to build and power tune SU carburators book, I also have a very rare set of the adjustment rods and the tool set for making the adjustments. got it on e-gay for chump change, is off of a set for a Jag. the tool set is mentioned in the book as the one impossible to find, never seen another one.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
I'm probably going to put the vaccume valve and the solonoid,etc, inside of the cowl area with the rest of the goodies in there, then it will only have one short rubber hose coming out of that block and going into a grommet on the cowl. other block needs to stay on the outside due to the hookups to the fuel bowls. actually the vent valve is small and unobtrusive, since it will have fuel vapors in it probably also needs to stay outside the cowl, the vaccume controls however can go inside.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Ok this is the vaccume valve assembly, the solonoid and wiring will go inside the cowl to make it look cleaner, the valve has fuel vapors in it, so it mounts to the firewall just under the piece i made, this way it will just have a loop of rubber vaccume line going through a grommet. this was one of the original control valves for this thing, vaccume at the top,check valve makes sure there's plenty of vaccume to operate the valve, when it's not energized vaccume at the top fitting coming from the engine is sealed off, and the vent control valve vents to atmosphere to close. when it's energized, vaccume is sent to the the vent valve. I need to figure out the system that sends a signal to one of the control box solonoids above 5 miles an hour, since the system is already in place,might as well use it. this will prevent the system from purging at idle. anyone have the specifics? on the end of the valve at the firewall where air goes to the float bowls, i'll install one of those really small lawnmower fuel filters to keep dirt from going to the float bowls, they are so small they just stick in the end of the hose. the only thinf visible will be the small silver valvehttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020069-2.jpg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
looks like the ecu in the carb cars just reads the speed sensor after a vaccume switch closes, and it uses it as an input, no way to make that work, have to see if the thermo switches screwed into the block are open when cold, if they are i can use one of them to turn on the vaccume solonoid after the coolant reaches a certain temp, my other option is the timed dizzy advance port on the base of one of these carbs, I think our dizzy is calibrated to run advance with manifold vaccume, so that would be a good source of vaccume to open the purge on the canister. would only open when the advance would normally kick in.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
wanted to clarify that the solonoid in line with the carb bowl vent valves is there to make sure the valve closes off the bowls when the engine is off, it held vaccume so well, that i couldn't get it to bleed down, when power is disconnected to this valve, it opens whatever is connected to it to atmosphere,allowing the vaccume to bleed off of the vent valve.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
the silver valve is what vents the float bowls when the engine is running, once the engine shuts off, it closes and the fuel vapors can't escape into the air and are absorbed by the canister. pretty simple, the other hose will go through a grommet and all the solonoid valves and so on will be hidden in the cowl. and yes the firewall will be painted. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020071-2.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020072-2.jpg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
Ok more done,using more of some of the original valves, these will be hidden inside of the cowl with all the other stuff , one is to allow the canister vaccume when the thermo sensor on the block says the engine is warmed up, the other is to bleed off vaccume when the key is off so the valve for the float bowl vents closes, still figuring out the other thermo sensor, it's supposed to let vaccume bleed off the purge diaphram until the engine is warmed up also, once the thermo valve is warmed up it closes allowing vaccume, i'm trying to figure out how they allowed it to bleed vaccume without causing a vaccume leak.
this is the filter for the float bowl vents, keeps crud from flowing through the lines and into the float bowls, makes me wonder about all these carbs with open float vents ,must be closed off by the air cleaner,to keep out grit
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020078-1.jpg
the bracket for the two valves made from two original brackets and welded together with some steel to modify it.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020076-3.jpg
bracket with valves
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020077-3.jpg
all this stuff will be hidden, I wish I could hide the canister but really no where to put it at all. the inside of this cowl is starting to look like an access panel for the space shuttle.
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
well so much for my nice bracket it won't fit in there, i need to mount the two valves apart,figures, anyway it will fit that way, i probably won't need the vaccume bleed valve if i use the thermo sensor on the block, the sensor won't let the solonoid switch on for purge until the engine warms up. this eliminates a vaccume hose and simplifies things a lot. once the purge valve opens on the canister engine vaccume purges the canister under load conditions.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020079-1.jpg
space shuttle stuff here, in this picture the oil pressure distribution block, power antenna mast, filler neck for the washer tank, oil pressure line going to interior, washer fluid line returning from interior, oil pressure sender for oil cooler ,
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020081-2.jpg
in this one you can see the low oil pressure switch screwed into the block,(white wire)
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020080-1.jpg
purge solonoid, the other solonoid for the fuel bowl vent isn't in yet. remember all this is hidden, everyone asks me how i fit the washer tank in there, no one knows that it's in the passenger footwell, the cap makes it look like it's under the cowl
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
these are the fittings that screw into the float bowl tops ,i already had changed the other to 1/8 npt, made fittings that welded in. these are for the vents, the male thread is 1/8 bsp and the female thread is 1/8 npt. This is the exact same fitting you need to adapt the oil pressure sender over to add a gauge, these seem to be very high quality steel, much better then any others i've seen,they are also listed as high pressure for hydraulics, so they will be fine in the oil system. these are from Mcmaster-carr part number 4936K408, the fitting i'm talking about is the steel part, the blue part are the AN adaptors , ordered from my work account
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...S4020100-3.jpg
Re: vapor canister stuff for the carb setup
