engine is crooked! WTF!

I have been trying to figure out a problem with my engine, it is tilted!

The driver's side of the motor is sitting about 1-2 inches too low. There is also a nasty vibration/groaning on accelleration 1st-3rd gear, the lower the gear or harder I step on it the louder it gets, obly at certain RPMS (1900, 2200, 3000, 3500, something like that)
The driver motor mount has NO VERTICAL ADJUSTMENT, only side to side.
The rear mount has no adjustment, but I noticed I had an A/T mount... M/T is very similar
I swapped out all my mounts and it is still the same, wtf!

info:
87 LX, auto to manual swap (DX tranny)
I changed the driver's side axle to a m/t model
I changed the rear motor mount bracket
I changed the rear motor mount (what a mission! Auto Zone does not offer a M/T mount!)
I changed the torque strut bushing to MT
According to MANCHESTER HONDA, all other engine mount part #'s match between auto and manual

MANUAL

FRONT MOUNT 57448 002 1 MOUNTING, ENGINE NO COLOR 76.25 53.38 Qty:
57457 010 1 BRACKET, FR. NO COLOR 43.91 30.74 Qty:

REAR MOUNT 76415 003 1 RUBBER NO COLOR 40.77 28.54 Qty:
76424 012 1 BRACKET, RR. NO COLOR 53.84 37.69 Qty:

SIDE MOUNT 76418 008 1 RUBBER NO COLOR 58.15 40.70 Qty:

TRANS MOUNT 48025 005 1 RUBBER, WIND STOPPER NO COLOR 29.07 20.35 Qty:
57451 007 1 BRKT, WIND STOPPER NO COLOR 42.95 30.07 Qty:

TORQUE ROD
43970 007 1 INSULATOR A NO COLOR 18.17 12.72 Qty:
76441 008 1 ROD, TORQUE NO COLOR 39.33 27.53 Qty:
15366 009 1 INSULATOR B NO COLOR 21.28 14.90 Qty:
76442 012 1 BRKT, L. TORQUE ROD NO COLOR 21.22 14.85 Qty:
76443 013 1 BRKT, R. TORQUE ROD NO COLOR 21.22 14.85 Qty:

================================================== ================

AUTO

FRONT MOUNT 57448 002 1 MOUNTING, ENGINE NO COLOR 76.25 53.38 Qty:
57457 010 1 BRACKET, FR. NO COLOR 43.91 30.74 Qty:

REAR MOUNT 76414 003 1 RUBBER NO COLOR 40.77 28.54 Qty:
REAR MOUNT 76416 003 1 RUBBER NO COLOR 40.77 28.54 Qty:
76423 012 1 BRACKET, RR. NO COLOR 56.29 39.40 Qty:

SIDE MOUNT 76418 008 1 RUBBER NO COLOR 58.15 40.70 Qty:

TRANS MOUNT 48026 005 1 RUBBER, WIND STOPPER NO COLOR 29.07 20.35 Qty:
57451 007 1 BRKT, WIND STOPPER NO COLOR 42.95 30.07 Qty:

TORQUE ROD
43970 007 1 INSULATOR A NO COLOR 18.17 12.72 Qty:
76441 008 1 ROD, TORQUE NO COLOR 39.33 27.53 Qty:
43972 009 1 INSULATOR B NO COLOR 21.28 14.90 Qty:
76442 012 1 BRKT, L. TORQUE ROD NO COLOR 21.22 14.85 Qty:
76443 013 1 BRKT, R. TORQUE ROD NO COLOR 21.22 14.85 Qty:

Did you change the crossmember mounts that is directly underneath the tranny?

uhhh sometin is brokted, cracked tranny case, or bolts that hold the mount to the block or case are stripped out possibly??

Like Bitesize said, did you change the cross member? They are different between the 5-speed and auto.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russiankid

Like Bitesize said, did you change the cross member? They are different between the 5-speed and auto.

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The whole crossmember or just the crossmember tranny mount?

#5 http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...13se00_j35.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

The whole crossmember or just the crossmember tranny mount?

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I think it was just the mount. Since the mount attaches to the tranny. When i get home if this hasn't been answered i will look at the shop manual.

I ask this, becuase I have the same problem, but not as bad. I think it's my driver's side axle, just haven't had time to change it out. Plus my crossmember tranny mount is bad too. So it could be either.

This is off-topic but what does #1 do? Nothing hangs on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

I ask this, becuase I have the same problem, but not as bad. I think it's my driver's side axle, just haven't had time to change it out. Plus my crossmember tranny mount is bad too. So it could be either.

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Not sure all of my mounts have been changed. The 5-speed mount says MT on it.

All of mine are MT's too, however the crossmember tranny mount is cracked into 2 pieces now lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

All of mine are MT's too, however the crossmember tranny mount is cracked into 2 pieces now lol.

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That could be a problem....:lol:

I tried to order from majestic honda, but they are on backorder. Check your crossmember mount pos carb. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

I tried to order from majestic honda, but they are on backorder. Check your crossmember mount pos carb. :)

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Junkyard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russiankid

Junkyard

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They are always shot! I've checked.:gun: All the parts places in town don't carry them too.

Are you sure your left engine mount(near water pump) isn't bad and worn out?

They are all brand new on mine.

I looked up on hondapartsdeals.com and they seem to have it.

https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hond...omponent=B++47

Hm...i never had a problem with mine leaning to the left. Even after removing the tranny to replace the clutch, everything lined back up correctly and sits straight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russiankid

I looked up on hondapartsdeals.com and they seem to have it.

https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hond...omponent=B++47

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Duh, i said it is on backorder...:Owned:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russiankid

This is off-topic but what does #1 do? Nothing hangs on it.

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its a dampener.....so if you take it out the car would shake like CRAZY....haha honda engineers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

its a dampener.....so if you take it out the car would shake like CRAZY....haha honda engineers

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Does it really make that much of a differance...:violin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

Does it really make that much of a differance...:violin:

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trust me dude....picos car would not start because it would shake like crazy...i think he even took some pics. back when he swaped in his engine.

hello...

#1 is a vibration damper, dunno how effective it is...

I changed the lower transmission mount (aka "wind stopper") to the m/t version (pn 48025) but according to the website the bracket is the same (pn 57451) and so is the crossmember brace (pn 76434) and both front (76440) and rear beams (76435). Mine is broken and the replacement that arrived today is incorrect.

I tried rotating the rear mount 180* to see if it helps, there is slightly less interference but it is still present as so is the tilt.

I went and pulled another rear mount bracket from a 5sp (all mounts were taken) I am going to try installing it to see if it helps but it looks identical to what is already installed :(

It feels like the motor is touching the firewall or the axles are groaning at the splines or maybe it's the diff......
:gun:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

Did you change the crossmember mounts that is directly underneath the tranny?

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The mount yes, the crossmember no
I doubt it has anything to do with this tilt anyway. I am ready to start grinding with the dremel >:)

What are you going to grind on?

The only thing i can think of now would be the rear engine mount. What may be wrong i don't know, but just a though.

"The driver's side of the motor is sitting about 1-2 inches too low."

Could it also be that the passenger's side of the engine is too high?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

"The driver's side of the motor is sitting about 1-2 inches too low."

Could it also be that the passenger's side of the engine is too high?

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That is why i suggested the rear mount. When i had mine removed the engine was about 1-2inches low on the passenger side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BITESIZE

I tried to order from majestic honda, but they are on backorder.

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Sometimes that's Honda code for "Fuggedaboudit. No more."

#1 mount on my car is gone and nothing changed apart from not having something there that does nothing. when i swapped my b20a from auto to manual that crossmember mount didnt get changed and it still fitted. but look under and check if its sitting on it. if it is. chop it :P

i got it just tilt your head to the left and it will be fine

but then the car would be tilted^^

so the engine would still look straight he isnt complaining that the car is crooked just the engine lol but i can see it now New thread "Car is crooked! WTF!" lol

Could the rubber insulator bushing in the top side mount be failed, allowing the engine to lean?

The engine is a little less noisy with the new motor mount, however the noise is still there, loudest at 2000 RPMs and 4000 RPMs, it never really goes away on hard accelleration. Maybe it's my diff going out because of the bad engine alignment?

the engine is supposed to balance on the front and rear mounts and the side mount is supposed to keep it level. To straighten my engine I would need to lower the front + rear mounts (impossible) or raise the side mount (also impossible)
The bottom line is I shouldn't have to cut, there is something I am missing but I can't figure it out, I was hoping someone else had run into this...

front mount: adjusts front to back (I am going to try and rotate the mount 180*, maybe it helps)
rear mount: no adjustment.
side mount: adjusts left to right, no vertical or depth adjustment
torque strut: should be tightened 2nd to last last after all others are seated and tightened. has front to rear adjustment but is severely limited by the other mounts.
tranny "mount": this is a bushing, you install it last, has play but does not support the engine. it keeps vibes down on accell/decell

from what I read here so far, I would check that something isnt bent from the original problem, include exhaust system parts too.
both issues started at the same time? groaning sounds, and the tilted engine?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russiankid

This is off-topic but what does #1 do? Nothing hangs on it.

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it's an engine vibration dampener it cancels certain engine harmonics that would be induced into the front cross member. it's a heavy weight suspended in a rubber mounting, the weight ocilliates at at a harmonic that is 180 degrees from the desired frequency they want to eliminate,this cancels that frequency out.think two tuning forks,out of phase by 180 degrees, you wouldn't hear a thing because one cancels the other.

Hello...

1st of all thanks for everyones input

2nd: I replaced the lower mount today with a junkyard original, the rubbing is 95% gone. The lower mount was crumbled and when I accelerated it let the engine push backwards... the header was rubbing the tranny crossmember

3rd: ENGINE IS STILL CROOKED

Side note: The crossmembers are exactly the same on A/T and M/T, I checked the bolt holes and alignment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roodoo2

from what I read here so far, I would check that something isnt bent from the original problem, include exhaust system parts too.
both issues started at the same time? groaning sounds, and the tilted engine?

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Engine has been tilted for a long time, but it seems to have gotten a little worse since I put in the engine mounts (like 1/4" worse) because my old ones were squashed and deformed. I can't recall exactly when it started...

I think I figured out the groaning... it started when I replaced the engine mounts and when I was down there I noticed the downpipe support bracket was loose (bolts fell out of the block) so I put new bolts... It was not a perfect alignment, I had to persuade the downpipe a bit. I am pretty sure the groaning is from the engine having too much play and the exhaust was transferring the drivetrain vibrations to the crossmember. Today I found a little nick in the crossmember from the contact point.

As far as the tilt is concerned I'm beginning to think the damn frame is bent... or maybe an engine mount bracket is twisted... who knows! this car is not exactly "babied"

could be... look at the radiator support and inner fenders for some different welds on either side, the car could have been smacked at some point.
Got your vibration and noise issues resolved I wouldnt worry about it unless it is just grossley freakishly stickiing up like a broke dick dog.:lol:

Are there any spacers between the mount bracket and block that are missing? I don't remember the Honda's having these, but my Toyota does, and leaving them out can cause problems.

Also, might you have run over a curb or otherwise bottomed out the car, causing the subframe assembly to be bent upwards, causing your problem? This would also explain the trashed tranny mount.