Importordomestic: Brake project!

Hey everyone!

I have a project that is ongoing that I want to share. As some of you know I run my car on the circuit track. It has been a long process to get her ready and everytime I run with the big dogs I Find something small and big to improve on. this project in particular is ongoing and will be updated through the build process.

As I do HPDE events and general track days I have found out that the accord has a HUGE brake problem. There is a track local to me called TGPR. this track was designed with dominent left handers and no elevation change. the catch is that it was designed for motor bikes. This track being small has some really nasty corners, that demand quick 90 - 50mph hard braking.

I found myself bleeding the brakes every 30 minutes due to brake fade, and flat out killing front rotors. This of course is un-acceptable for true competition use.

So I jumped on 3geez and read through all the old archives / big brake threads, everything LX-incredible ever wrote...LOL. In the end I felt that I needed something more.

My plan is to run the biggest front rotors possible that will fit under 15x8 rims
rotors around 11-11.75'' in diameter. Rear discs conversion that LX-incredible did or possibly a spin off or variant of that. (More on that later.) run dual master cylinders with on the fly adjustable balance bar. (yes that means no more brake booster, and nor more 40/40 prop valve.)

Before I go any further I have to extend my Thanks to the 3geez community. You have helped me more than you can imagine in my early years with this car, And you continue to give me inspiration for my project as a whole.

More importantly for this project I have to give BIG PROPS to Brian at www.fastbrakes.com. This poor guy worked with me for 4 months to put this plan into action. The level of customer staisfaction is well beyond words. If my lawn mower needs brake pads, I will buy them from him.

Here it is, complete Wilwod components for the entire build..

Front brakes are:
2 piece front rotors 11.75'' diameter
4 pot aluminum NDL caliper
Wilwood DT30 front pads.
All stainless hardware teflon coated.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5853/dscf5202u.jpg

Comparison of stock 88-89 front rotor to the Wilwood 11.75''

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7495/dscf5205z.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9329/dscf5206s.jpg

Here are progressive pics of the moch install for test fitting.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8115/dscf5200.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8703/dscf5201.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2917/dscf5207y.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8983/dscf5210n.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5669/dscf5213.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8198/dscf5221.jpg

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3432/dscf5228b.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3131/dscf5236j.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1383/dscf5243g.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5358/dscf5246.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5499/dscf5244.jpg

For now this is all I have. I know that there will be lots of questions / comments suggestions, I will try to reply as soon as I can.

I have picked out my dual master cylinder brake pedal assembly and front size master cylinder. Again using all Wilwood parts.
However at this moment I am at a cross roads with my design. I cant determine how I want to do the rear disc's. For the most part everything tells me to go with Wilwood 2 piece rotors again with 11'' vented rotors and a 2 pot caliper, This however effectively eliminates the manual parking brake. There are solutions to a parking brake, but race cars dont need parking brakes only show cars need a parking brake right?

option 2
Doo the LX-incredible 11'' rear non vented rotor and legend calipers. It would be easy As I already have the calipers. I retain the parking brake and a cheaper price slightly.

option 3
Move the old front rotors to the rear and find a 2 pot Wilwood caliper that will work with the rotor.

Once the rear upgrade is set in stone I can move forward with rear master cylinder size selection and finish the brake system.

OH and the big question everyone will have is HOW MUCH $$$$
$1,200 for what you see in the first picture alone. My race car has no budget. It will get whatever money it needs to build the car to my shops standards.

ASFmotors - building your grocery geter.

Lets hear it, $$??

Looks awesome! Lets hear some results! Oh and what is a balance bar? Forgive my ignorance.

Oh and details on the caliper bracket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2drSE-i

Lets hear it, $$??

Looks awesome! Lets hear some results! Oh and what is a balance bar? Forgive my ignorance.

---

$1,200 so far.

Here is ver batem out of Wilwod Faq
- The balance bar is an adjustable lever (usually a threaded rod), that pivots on a spherical bearing and uses two separate
master cylinders for the front and rear brakes. Most balance bars are part of a pedal assembly that also provides a mounting
for the master cylinders. When the balance bar is centered, it pushes equally on both master cylinders creating equal pressure,
given that the master cylinders are the same size bore. When adjusted as far as possible toward one master cylinder it
will push approximately twice as hard on that cylinder as the other

There is a diagram located here on page 3
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds252.pdf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2drSE-i

Oh and details on the caliper bracket.

---

Well.... Um I cant in good conciense give those out at this time as Brian at fastbrakes worked really hard to make this work. Sorry - Iwill call him tomorrow and if he says ok I will take measurements and relay them to you. As of right now I dont really know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Well.... Um I cant in good conciense give those out at this time as Brian at fastbrakes worked really hard to make this work. Sorry - Iwill call him tomorrow and if he says ok I will take measurements and relay them to you. As of right now I dont really know.

---

Oh no sweat, dont go out of your way. It looks to be a fairly simple design, i was just curious if it was a one off, which it seems to be.


As for the balance bar, from what the FAQ says is basically an easily adjustable proportioning valve for multi-cylinder use? Sounds interesting!

Thats it. you got it. it is for fineite adjustment of brake bias. replace the threaded rod wit hthe Wilwood remote mount adjuster and you can adjust brake bias on the fly. now this can eliminate the use of a proportioning valve. In my case I have opted to do so. for the on the fly bias adjustment.

Another way to use dual master cylinders is for redundancy, Ie if you run rally or endurance races. you would use 2 equal master cylinders run both of them into the proportioning valve in tandem or run a secondary set of lines to your calipers and have 100% redundant systems. if you loose one master cylinder or 1 of the 8 lines gets torn you still have all the brakes.

in my case I will have 50% redundat brake system. if the front master cylinder fails or tear a front brake line i still have the rear brake system to bleed speed before i tag the wall............

Man, I love your hatch. Totally badass car. I have to say thanks for the thread you started on wheel fitments. Thanks to you I'll be running 15x8 rota rb's with 225/45 kumho v700's as my autocross setup.

hell yeah thats awesome!
as for rear brakes id go with the legend setup so u can use the ebrake for drifto!!! :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by turabaka

Man, I love your hatch. Totally badass car. I have to say thanks for the thread you started on wheel fitments. Thanks to you I'll be running 15x8 rota rb's with 225/45 kumho v700's as my autocross setup.

---

Thanks man for the compliment. Rota rims are awesome. Honestly I want to go WIDER!!!. I also want you to look at the Hancookc Ventus Rs3's thay are a proven autocross tire, and they grip for days on my car. I actually try to get the car to understeer. For now I dont have enough power to negate a wider tire.

Also I want you to understand that if you are going to drop the car agressively you WIll have to roll the fenders. My coilovers are all the way down but my springs are aftermarket for a 97 crv. so the car still sits pretty high. BUt still 1.5'' lower than the stock accord. another reason i dont lower my car anymore than it is, is that I dont have enough camber adjustment in the front yet to compensate. At this time i am running -3 on the front and i cant pull any more out. So this is low as i go until i switch setups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Civic Accord Honda

hell yeah thats awesome!
as for rear brakes id go with the legend setup so u can use the ebrake for drifto!!! :lol:

---

Got any lunch trays laying around? LOL

Thanks CAH your awesome!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Got any lunch trays laying around? LOL

Thanks CAH your awesome!!

---

You laugh but in highschool this was ALL the rage!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2drSE-i

You laugh but in highschool this was ALL the rage!

---

I know, I've done it with this 3g.......

damn, you really did it. After the initial timeline was extended, I was concerned for you. ...but Brian pulled through. They look insane.

i peed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markmdz89hatch

damn, you really did it. After the initial timeline was extended, I was concerned for you. ...but Brian pulled through. They look insane.

---

Yeah it sure did take a long time, But is was worth it. Yeah we overshot my initial timeline by 2 months but oh well. There is still work to be done before i can use them at the track. But I am excited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Thanks man for the compliment. Rota rims are awesome. Honestly I want to go WIDER!!!. I also want you to look at the Hancookc Ventus Rs3's thay are a proven autocross tire, and they grip for days on my car. I actually try to get the car to understeer. For now I dont have enough power to negate a wider tire.

Also I want you to understand that if you are going to drop the car agressively you WIll have to roll the fenders. My coilovers are all the way down but my springs are aftermarket for a 97 crv. so the car still sits pretty high. BUt still 1.5'' lower than the stock accord. another reason i dont lower my car anymore than it is, is that I dont have enough camber adjustment in the front yet to compensate. At this time i am running -3 on the front and i cant pull any more out. So this is low as i go until i switch setups.

---

Yeah. I already had to roll them to accomdate the 215/45-r16 falken azenis I ran last year. As for my tire choice, I considered the Ventus, but I couldn't pass up the v700's that I got for $70 a tire. next year I'll probably be running hoosier A6's or Kumho v710's

11.75" under a 15" inch rim is impressive in a Honda setup. I never could find anything with a stock parts that I though could work.

Great write up too!



wp

hoosier A6 is a bad ass tire. but at $217 a pop your getting hard core.

i likes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord

11.75" under a 15" inch rim is impressive in a Honda setup. I never could find anything with a stock parts that I though could work.

Great write up too!



wp

---

Thank's

I needed something more than stock honda parts. The wilwood pieces are lighter than the stock 88 brakes. I am not sure how much lighter at this piint as i havent removed the old brakes compeltely to weigh them. I estimate i decreased the un sprung weight in the front from 2 - 5 lbs.

The other thing is that new rotor surafaces are 30$ a pop. so its in-expensive to replace. The re drilled legend rotors can cost slightly more pending who is doing the re-drilling. and you have lead time on ordering those types of parts. not only that those big hunks of metal combined with an even bigger acura caliper will add a substancial amount of weight to the front. However the benefits of a bigger rotor will outweigh the costs of more weight.

In the end I wanted my cake and eat it to.... lol

i love this! if i get 1200 to blow(after i get my rx7 running and the accord right) ill be gettin these ahahahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tdurr

i love this! if i get 1200 to blow(after i get my rx7 running and the accord right) ill be gettin these ahahahaha

---

Tdurr how you been man? I like your new sig pic with the winky eye. How are your projects coming along? The 86 RX7 restoration is coming along nicely. I still need to pick up a few parts for the engine to be complete, But money is tight this past month so it will have to wait a little while. Fortunately when you have a shop and accumulate supplies, elbow grease is all that is needed to do good portions of work.

Did this this past weekend. I should probably thorw up a thread in the general section to show its build progress...idk

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3185/dscf5162p.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5248/dscf5178m.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/421/dscf5185o.jpg

Wow, this is really cool! This gives me some motivation to upgrade the brakes on my 2g Prelude. Have a couple questions though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

run dual master cylinders with on the fly adjustable balance bar. (yes that means no more brake booster, and nor more 40/40 prop valve.)

---

By not using a brake booster, won't the required pedal effort go up significantly? It would be really nice to not have to use a brake booster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3432/dscf5228b.jpg

---

Is that bracket steel or aluminum? I would assume steel but it looks like it's anodized.

Also it looks like your safety wire is kinda backwards. It's supposed to be run so that it works against the bolts loosening up. I guess they still couldn't loosen very far the way it is.



C|

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cygnus x-1

Wow, this is really cool! This gives me some motivation to upgrade the brakes on my 2g Prelude. Have a couple questions though...





By not using a brake booster, won't the required pedal effort go up significantly? It would be really nice to not have to use a brake booster.







Is that bracket steel or aluminum? I would assume steel but it looks like it's anodized.

Also it looks like your safety wire is kinda backwards. It's supposed to be run so that it works against the bolts loosening up. I guess they still couldn't loosen very far the way it is.



C|

---

The stock brake pedal will be removed and a Wilwood pedal installed. the Wilwood pedal gives a leverage action of 7-1. This is how the mechanical force is overcome and brake booster not needed.

Here is a link to the pedal I picked out for this build: 2nd one from the top of the page. http://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalList.aspx If you read the PDF document attached It explains in great detail all about the pedal/dual master cylinder setup.

The bracket is made out of aluminum same as the caliper. I believe it to be 4340. I would have to ask Brian at fastbrakes to confirm this tho.

oh and the lace is competely wrong. I thought i knew what I was doing the first time ariound and after some research:

A your not suposed to use a single wire to lace them together.
B always lace from the outer most part of the rotor to the inner most part.
C you are supposed to wire the bolts in pairs and in a figure 8. the figure 8 makes 100% sure the bolts work against each other from loosening. and they are in pairs because if you break on wire you potentially will only have 2 bolts back out.

Un fortunately locktite will not work as the rotors see enough heat to brak the locktite down. Also if the bolts do loosen and start to back out this will mean catastrophic failure as the bolt will jam against my knuckle and instantly cause a wreck, which could lead into other things.

Are you on Rx7 club by any chance? I see a guy on the megasquirt forums named Sir Cygnus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

The stock brake pedal will be removed and a Wilwood pedal installed. the Wilwood pedal gives a leverage action of 7-1. This is how the mechanical force is overcome and brake booster not needed.

Here is a link to the pedal I picked out for this build: 2nd one from the top of the page. http://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalList.aspx If you read the PDF document attached It explains in great detail all about the pedal/dual master cylinder setup.

---

Neat stuff. I wonder how that 7:1 compares to a stock pedal? A stock pedal could be modified to increase the mechanical advantage but then the travel needed would increase. Not that that would be a bad thing. More travel would allow for better modulation. Hmm, may have to ponder on this a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

The bracket is made out of aluminum same as the caliper. I believe it to be 4340. I would have to ask Brian at fastbrakes to confirm this tho.

---

4340 is actually steel, but yeah that looks like aluminum. It's probably 6061 or one of the 7000 grades. At first I was thinking that aluminum wouldn't be good for brake parts because of the high heat, but then I realized the rotor hats are aluminum, so it must be ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

oh and the lace is competely wrong. I thought i knew what I was doing the first time ariound and after some research:

A your not suposed to use a single wire to lace them together.
B always lace from the outer most part of the rotor to the inner most part.
C you are supposed to wire the bolts in pairs and in a figure 8. the figure 8 makes 100% sure the bolts work against each other from loosening. and they are in pairs because if you break on wire you potentially will only have 2 bolts back out.

---

I've never used safety wire for anything but that all makes sense. I have a friend that used to race motorcycles though and I remember he used wire in some places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Are you on Rx7 club by any chance? I see a guy on the megasquirt forums named Sir Cygnus.

---

Nope, not me. I know there is a guy that goes by Cygnus on Hybridz too. Not sure what I'll do if I ever get an RX7 or a Z and want to join one of those forums. I would have to come up with a different handle I guess. :thumbdn: :lol:


C|

Ah ok, so It isnt you that is on Rx7 club. OH well thought I found an Aquaintance over there :(

Yeah the calipers are solid aluminum as wel. It doesnt sound that great of a material at first But the R&D guys over at Wilwood know whats goign on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Ah ok, so It isnt you that is on Rx7 club. OH well thought I found an Aquaintance over there :(

Yeah the calipers are solid aluminum as wel. It doesnt sound that great of a material at first But the R&D guys over at Wilwood know whats goign on.

---

Its all about the quality of aluminum. And how much weight you will save by running lighter calipers.

Very cool project... I have been wondering myself if the willwood kit in that size would fit under a 15" wheel as I don't want to have to change my wheels when I do a brake upgrade.

I will be following this closely. Good luck with the rest of the project.

Wow! Someone finally bought them.. and they look killer.

Looking forward to more progress from you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hash_man_Se_i

Very cool project... I have been wondering myself if the willwood kit in that size would fit under a 15" wheel as I don't want to have to change my wheels when I do a brake upgrade.

I will be following this closely. Good luck with the rest of the project.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 87roach

Wow! Someone finally bought them.. and they look killer.

Looking forward to more progress from you!

---

I want to clear any confusion before it happens this isnt a "Kit" with a stocked part number from Wilwood. Brian and I pieced together these components to fit my specific application. Brian may actually put this as a option for the 88-89 accords. But this would be something that you can only order through him not from a run of the mill authorized dealer.

Secondly they wont fit under all 15 rims. I have 2 sets of 15' rims one set will not go on over the caliper. However my Rota Rb rims clear with mm's to spare. these will fit a rim that has a 14'' inside diameter in the barrel of the rim. specifically you have to have this diameter taken at the backplate of where the rim meets the rotor. some 15 rims will have the barrel taper as it meets the center section.

my rim specific dimensions are 15x8 -35with a totaled 14'' rim diameter.

I have lots more progress coming soon!

And thanks for all the comments guys.

Hey where are the pics? I want to see the brake goodies. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guaynabo89

Hey where are the pics? I want to see the brake goodies. :D

---

the pic's are still showing up for me. If you still cant see them PM me with email addy I will send you all my projects.

Nice stuff! Looking forward to the completed setup!

Very Nice, I was waiting for someone to go all out on brakes. Can wait to see some results from this thread, and how well your track times improve! If you could find a way to move the caliper out about 2mm in the rear the 11" option would be readily available with off the shelf parts (plus whatever you use to space the caliper out). Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

Very Nice, I was waiting for someone to go all out on brakes. Can wait to see some results from this thread, and how well your track times improve! If you could find a way to move the caliper out about 2mm in the rear the 11" option would be readily available with off the shelf parts (plus whatever you use to space the caliper out). Good luck!

---

Just the guy I needed to chime in! Lets talk about that 11'' rear option some more.

are you talking about your find of using the civic powerstop rotors and legend rear calipers? Ive read that through a couple of times and didnt realize that it still needed a 2mm spacer to complete that.

Or are you talking about a different setup entirely?

Sorry for the slow progress guy's I have alot on my plate at the moment. I work a regular 40hr week as a network engineer and I run a auto shop on the side. (The idea is to transition to the shop only) there are times that I get swamped with customer cars, and this is one of them.

I have yet to pick up these items on my list.

ARP wheel studs
8mm wheel spacers
Wilwood brake pedal
Dual master cylinders (mostly due to the part of an indecision on the rear brakes.)

Its for the best I needed to recoup some funds anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Just the guy I needed to chime in! Lets talk about that 11'' rear option some more.

are you talking about your find of using the civic powerstop rotors and legend rear calipers? Ive read that through a couple of times and didnt realize that it still needed a 2mm spacer to complete that.

Or are you talking about a different setup entirely?

Sorry for the slow progress guy's I have alot on my plate at the moment. I work a regular 40hr week as a network engineer and I run a auto shop on the side. (The idea is to transition to the shop only) there are times that I get swamped with customer cars, and this is one of them.

I have yet to pick up these items on my list.

ARP wheel studs
8mm wheel spacers
Wilwood brake pedal
Dual master cylinders (mostly due to the part of an indecision on the rear brakes.)

Its for the best I needed to recoup some funds anyway.

---

Actually when you read the thread I note that I have to shave the inside of the caliper bracket, and the outer edge of the rotor. I didn't like the results of this because that weakens the metal, and almost goes into the area where the sliders move in and out of. I also had to eliminate the use of the rattle bracket because they would not allow the rotor to move. This could all be easily fixed the a bracket the just spaces the caliper out (diameter wise) from the rotor. Everything else fits perfectly

yeah I remember that part, didnt realize you were refering to spacing the caliper out in a further radius.

I am probably going to try out the brakes with the stock SEI rear disks. I did however upgrade to a set of Hawk pads in the rear. I have another 2 day open track day next month. I am definately in high anticipation for a more consistant car.

As for MAster cylinder's I believe that the front should be setup with 3/4, and the rear with a 13/16 as that is the stock size for the SEI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

yeah I remember that part, didnt realize you were refering to spacing the caliper out in a further radius.

I am probably going to try out the brakes with the stock SEI rear disks. I did however upgrade to a set of Hawk pads in the rear. I have another 2 day open track day next month. I am definately in high anticipation for a more consistant car.

As for MAster cylinder's I believe that the front should be setup with 3/4, and the rear with a 13/16 as that is the stock size for the SEI.

---

I was able to mate a legend caliper(larger piston) to the stock sei setup, so they be a viable option for you aswell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

I was able to mate a legend caliper(larger piston) to the stock sei setup, so they be a viable option for you aswell.

---

I have a set of those calipers on hand, And i may try that. But it requires removal of materil from the mounting bracket itself for the piston to clear. And that is a cast piece of steel. Something deep inside me just doesnt think that is a good idea.

Any part of brake failure will mean total understeer / crash / you name what bad happens in crashes of that nature.

Spoke with Brian at Fastbrakes today, I have a quote for the rest of the brake parts. just need to pull the trigger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

the pic's are still showing up for me. If you still cant see them PM me with email addy I will send you all my projects.

---

they're showing up now. Nice work

feel free to pm me whatever u want. im always up for shop talk.

as far as the rear, have you tried matching up oem rotors from some other manufacturer in the size/offset you need?

brembo has a site that lists all rotor sizes up to 2008.

http://www.brembo.com/ENG/catalogo_AM/2008/index.html


I used that to figure out a rotor for my RL for bbk I did for it.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

I have a set of those calipers on hand, And i may try that. But it requires removal of materil from the mounting bracket itself for the piston to clear. And that is a cast piece of steel. Something deep inside me just doesnt think that is a good idea.

Any part of brake failure will mean total understeer / crash / you name what bad happens in crashes of that nature.

Spoke with Brian at Fastbrakes today, I have a quote for the rest of the brake parts. just need to pull the trigger.

---

I understand that. Its a minute amount of metal, but Ive never put my brakes to there limit as you would on a track. So what are you planning out for the rear with Brain?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

I understand that. Its a minute amount of metal, but Ive never put my brakes to there limit as you would on a track. So what are you planning out for the rear with Brain?

---

actually I am goign to leave the rear SEI brakes as they are. I have an open track weekend next month where I will be able to fully work the system. I am really interested to see what changing the front rotors alone has done to the car. I am a stickler for testing one part at a time.

I am working on a mastercylinder brace for the accord. This shiould get rid of firewall flex and help with brake modulation.

For right at the moment Brian and I discussed using an 11'' two piece rotor for the rear with a 2 pot caliper. It would be the exact same setup he makes for the civic's, just with a few different brackets and lines.

The biggest change we discussed was a complete re-vamp of brake hard line pluming.

Right now Brian quoted out the dual master cylinders, pedal assembly, remote balance bar and rear pressure valve. around $300 but thats not including fittings, hardline, hardware, etc to make it all work.

In the end a good race car Is all about balance. So simply I put my stock accord on the track and drove it. Each time I spend a trackday beating on the car, I find something that is completely lacking or could be better. Then I plan, budjet and move forward.

I have so many things that I want to do, its gets jumbled up in the priority list. Between what is necessary and what i would like to have now.

After the brakes are finished I will have a consistant car, and that alone will be a HUGE benefit.

Nick Brown
ASFmotors.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

actually I am goign to leave the rear SEI brakes as they are. I have an open track weekend next month where I will be able to fully work the system. I am really interested to see what changing the front rotors alone has done to the car. I am a stickler for testing one part at a time.

I am working on a mastercylinder brace for the accord. This shiould get rid of firewall flex and help with brake modulation.

For right at the moment Brian and I discussed using an 11'' two piece rotor for the rear with a 2 pot caliper. It would be the exact same setup he makes for the civic's, just with a few different brackets and lines.

The biggest change we discussed was a complete re-vamp of brake hard line pluming.

Right now Brian quoted out the dual master cylinders, pedal assembly, remote balance bar and rear pressure valve. around $300 but thats not including fittings, hardline, hardware, etc to make it all work.

In the end a good race car Is all about balance. So simply I put my stock accord on the track and drove it. Each time I spend a trackday beating on the car, I find something that is completely lacking or could be better. Then I plan, budjet and move forward.

I have so many things that I want to do, its gets jumbled up in the priority list. Between what is necessary and what i would like to have now.

After the brakes are finished I will have a consistant car, and that alone will be a HUGE benefit.

Nick Brown
ASFmotors.....

---

I don't know if Brian, or you have put any thought into it, but another option would be to use the stock 88-90 Legend sedan, or and 87-90 coupe rear caliper and bracket. They are significantly larger then the stock Se-i setup. If you read my thread about 11" rear brake upgrade my biggest problem is finding the right rotor size. I believe a re-drilled rear legend rotor would fix the whole problem, but I never got the time or money to test the theory. I tried to use rear 2003 Civic Si (10.3") rotors with no luck, they were actually to small. The 11" rear civic upgrade rotors were just slightly to big. It needs a rotor somewhere in the range between 10.3" and 11". Good luck with everything, your 3g is very impressive!

I may have missed it, but are you going to do any ducting?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

I don't know if Brian, or you have put any thought into it, but another option would be to use the stock 88-90 Legend sedan, or and 87-90 coupe rear caliper and bracket. They are significantly larger then the stock Se-i setup. If you read my thread about 11" rear brake upgrade my biggest problem is finding the right rotor size. I believe a re-drilled rear legend rotor would fix the whole problem, but I never got the time or money to test the theory. I tried to use rear 2003 Civic Si (10.3") rotors with no luck, they were actually to small. The 11" rear civic upgrade rotors were just slightly to big. It needs a rotor somewhere in the range between 10.3" and 11". Good luck with everything, your 3g is very impressive!

---

oh I will definately take that into consideration. But as a general rule for myself I am staying away from having re-drilled rotors. Going to a 2 piece rotor design allows me to order replacement rotor surfaces from any willwood vendor. Its not that I am against re drilling rotors just its an extra step which costs that extra step of money as well. You have done lots of research and time and without it, I would have had a harder path to follow.

Thank's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strugglebucket

I may have missed it, but are you going to do any ducting?

---

Yes i have put alot of thought into a duct design I haven't had the time to start building it yet but Very soon. I am goig nto use the 2 grills under the arccord bumper box it in and run 2 ducts per side one to the front of the caliper and one to the rear. This should easily cure my heatsoak problem.

Honestly I have been slammed with customer cars the last 2 weekends and havent had a bit of time to work on my race car.

I need some help guy's. I need to source 4 packs of wheel stuuds from ARP. ARP has them on back order until the end of June. I need part number ARP #070-100-7711 they are .485 knurl 3'' long and 12x1.5 thread. IF i cant source 4 pakages I will have to go with BLOX studs and pay out the ass for it to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

I need some help guy's. I need to source 4 packs of wheel stuuds from ARP. ARP has them on back order until the end of June. I need part number ARP #070-100-7711 they are .485 knurl 3'' long and 12x1.5 thread. IF i cant source 4 pakages I will have to go with BLOX studs and pay out the ass for it to.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

oh I will definately take that into consideration. But as a general rule for myself I am staying away from having re-drilled rotors. Going to a 2 piece rotor design allows me to order replacement rotor surfaces from any willwood vendor. Its not that I am against re drilling rotors just its an extra step which costs that extra step of money as well. You have done lots of research and time and without it, I would have had a harder path to follow.

Thank's

---

I agree, I just wonder if theres a rotor out there that we don't know about. I'm sure some car had to have the size rotor needed to make that setup work, but only research will figure that one out lol.


Quick search of google for ARP #070-100-77117711 brings up a couple online companies that carry those. You might call around and see if you can find one that actually carried them in there inventory. Check out that Honda tech thread as well (the second one), he may be able to get those for you.

importordomestic, what was your previous brake setup? did you have aftermarket rotors or pads? What fluid were you using?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter

importordomestic, what was your previous brake setup? did you have aftermarket rotors or pads? What fluid were you using?

---

88-89 front rotors. SEI rear disk brakes. Front and rear rotors were slotted, with axis pads. In the end there just isnt enough rotor mass to effecively stop the car consistantly after running extended periods on track. Put it to you this way, the front rotors were building so much heat and transfering it to the rim the sticky part of the wheel weights would melt off and throw weights.

im really interested to see the outcome of this project, it seems like a well thought out setup

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter

im really interested to see the outcome of this project, it seems like a well thought out setup

---

Thanks for the support, only time will tell the outcome of the car in general. I have no clue how or when the end will come. Once i have the car fully prepped and in competition a whole new set of things will come at me in a hurry. :beer:

Well update to the brake project.

I finally got the wheel studs and the wheel spacers in and brakes installed. WOW just WOW, I have never driven a car with so much brake in my life. There is a great deal of learning the brakes now. I will have to drive it more to get a more consistant feel from them.

I have scheduled an open track day at the end of this month. Hopefully with my high grip tires and some real world track use, I will be able to report a better study.

For now this is scary how much brake this car has. The brakes will physically hurt you when agressively applied without wheel lockup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Well update to the brake project.

I finally got the wheel studs and the wheel spacers in and brakes installed. WOW just WOW, I have never driven a car with so much brake in my life. There is a great deal of learning the brakes now. I will have to drive it more to get a more consistant feel from them.

I have scheduled an open track day at the end of this month. Hopefully with my high grip tires and some real world track use, I will be able to report a better study.

For now this is scary how much brake this car has. The brakes will physically hurt you when agressively applied without wheel lockup.

---

Alright now that you have tested, and made sure everything was good. Go ahead and box the setup up, and send to my house :beer: !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

Alright now that you have tested, and made sure everything was good. Go ahead and box the setup up, and send to my house :beer: !

---

OR I could just break them in on the way to your house, Bring my tools and get you going in 3 hours or so.

LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

OR I could just break them in on the way to your house, Bring my tools and get you going in 3 hours or so.

LOL

---

Well since you would be heading this way, you could just leave the whole car with me :D .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

Well since you would be heading this way, you could just leave the whole car with me :D .

---

Since you would have to pry it fomr my dead cold fingers, Please place my corpse in a cozy comfy spot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Importordomestic

Since you would have to pry it fomr my dead cold fingers, Please place my corpse in a cozy comfy spot.

---

Note to self, bring buddy club! So have you come up with anything further on the rear brakes?

yeah hows the bias and pedal travel with these?

worse comes to worse you could go custom rear rotors, but that would be pricey.

Dont know if you made your rear rotor choics already, but heres a site that helps a bit finding rotors from other cars.

http://www.brembo.com/ENG/catalogo_AM/2008/index.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend_master

Note to self, bring buddy club! So have you come up with anything further on the rear brakes?

---

Not yet, I have my first track event this Friday through Sunday. With my high grip tires i should be able to put the brakes through there paces. I will have a better idea after 3 hours of track time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guaynabo89

yeah hows the bias and pedal travel with these?

worse comes to worse you could go custom rear rotors, but that would be pricey.

Dont know if you made your rear rotor choics already, but heres a site that helps a bit finding rotors from other cars.

http://www.brembo.com/ENG/catalogo_AM/2008/index.html

---

That brembo link is awesome, and I have a feeling that i will spend some time there in the near future.

OK for now with my street tires its a complete joke. I can over power the tires so freaking easy its funny. im running W rated 195/50/15 all the way around. but my first impressions was that i had overpowered my front brakes. 2 weeks later I believe I have made an excelent choice as I have gotten use to them and can better modulate the brake pedal. also doing 10 consecutive 120mph to 50mph brakeing will bed the pads in and pedal got alot better after.

Currently running the 15/16 master cylinder and brake booster with stock SEI prop valve. I think that I would use a bit more rear bias. I honestly will have a better idea after this weekend is up.