with all the work done on the head, i'd go with 2.5" collector all the way back through with mandrel bends..Originally Posted by rjudgey
with all the work done on the head, i'd go with 2.5" collector all the way back through with mandrel bends..
Yeah i'm thinking the same thing and if it kills the torque i can just add a turbo onto it!! hehehe!!
i honestly doubt it will kill torque that much... plus, you shouldn't be worrying about the low end.. it is meant to be "high revving engine" isn't it??
hahaha yes to a certain degree just trying to keep the best of both worlds hence why i'm only looking at cams with duration less than 300 degrees 285 is amazingly streetable with the right ignition and cam timing set the lightweight flywheel just needs a little more revs if the car is light is harder to stall so easy too which helps!! Was stuck in traffic for an hour yesterday helped bed the clutch in and wasn't that hard work really arse was numb from the new buckets i bought they seem to have zero padding on the new Cobras for some odd reason lol!!
Sorry about the delay been a bit busy clearing up and tweeking the engine still!! Got it running a bit better throttle plates weren't quite shutting tightly all sorted now and the central balancer screw kept working loose i've cleaned it out and superglued it in place!! Tinkered with the Main jets and ignition timing a little getting a bit more top end and less stuttering overall cold weather and running no thermostat isn't helping might stick it back in at weekend see what it runs like with some heat in the engine!! Be nice to not freeze in the car too lol!! 105KW at the wheels maybe a little bit more now but not much had a look at the old graph and it stops producing power in exactly the same place so i definately think it's a bottleneck in the exhaust if the CR ratio was much higher the exhaust is less of an issue due to less exhaust gas mass to push out due to the cleaner burning of higher CR ratio engines but as it's well low around 8.8:1 it's got too much gas to push out of a 2" pipe at the collector. Going to get a new downpipe made up and get rid of those crush bends and get some 2.25" mandrel bends put in shouldn't cost too much to do this and will be good to see what kinda gains i get from minimal mods to the exhaust then it will be custom header time)
Will try and get some vids up soon still having issues with myspace have some great track vids of me scaring some Civic and Integra Type-r's out the way!! hehehe!!
So 105 kW=141.89189189189189189...hp?
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
141whp, not too shabby already, cant wait to see it after the mods!
edit: dammit, guy beat me to it lol
Last edited by SZfiftyfour; 12-10-2008 at 06:17 PM.
That is right at the wheels not the flywheel, got another trick up my sleeve that might help with the exhaust bottleneck a little, have some direct hits ignition modules which really helps with a much cleaner and fuller combustion going to try these at the weekend and see how it runs, but at the end of the day i know it's really the exhaust and the low compression of the pistons thats the main bug bear!! The last engine was a ET1 with 2.0 pistons and the chambers were much smaller was using the same A20A1 pistons but due to the smaller chambers from the 1.6/1.8 ET1 engine the CR ratio was much higher than what i have now. But gives most of you guy's hope that without spending a mega amount of money you can have an engine that can put down 140-150bhp at the wheels with basically a rebuilt stock block, header, exhaust, some headwork with enlarged valves without needing new seats, a mild camshaft, and with either twin webers, bike carbs, or ITB's or maybe a plenum setup with short fat runners and larger TB can achieve. Combine this with increases in CR ratio and you can get significant power increases. Theres still much more i can get out the head i didn't have time to really go to town on it as it was a rush/budget job, ultimately i'd like to have slimmer stems on the inlet valves with much nicer head profile on the valve, 5 angle seats on all valves and seats, and maybe even bigger inlet valves with new seats there is room for slightly more but whether it would be advantagous i'm not sure 33mm is good enough for 230-240bhp, also want to get some new bronze guides made up and a more wilder cam made with 290-295 degrees and definately more lift going from 10mm to 11.5mm which will make quite a difference the 10mm lift is fine for stock valve sizes but now they are much bigger it's not working at it's optimum performance unfortunately. I have the scope for more lift in the valvetrain might have to look at some different springs but definately can cope with it. It's all good fun just love doing the R&D and luckily have loads of A20 spares so i can have other heads and blocks being worked on at the same time that this one is in the car being used so i can still have fun with it at the same time!! Next biggest problem is just getting the pistons made that i want with the one off offset valve pockets in the crowns to help increase the CR ratio.
this is way cool, cant wait to see results with a new exhaust
i want to see you build the block up with some really high CR pistons in there!!
Yes it's not bad would have been a lot better if i could have got hold of some new A20A3/4 pistons with the 9.4:1 CR ratio, plus the fact that i would have honed and had new rings in which would have been hand gapped i think this would have gained probably about another 7-10bhp over what i have now if i had the parts available. Next time I'll be dropping in some 83mm pistons with CR ratio of around 11-11.5:1 with lighter stronger internals then we'll see just how much we can get from a highly tuned A20 with webers!! But still tinkering and tweeking as they say!! Can't wait for the weather to get better and the drag strip to open up!! Roll on Summer!!
In fact now i know why it was sucking balls!! Damn silly engine tuner swapped out my plugs and replaced them with shitty normal ones!! He put in these crappy things!! NGK triple electrode normal resistor plugs just higher heat grade, the engine hates them cause they just don't burn strong enough have to use racing plugs with no resistors in them!! Normally Nology silver or Bosch copper, just put in the plugs i normally use and bam running smoother and loads more power!! grrrrr well the power is definately up i reckon probably as much as 5-7bhp the wheels are lighting up much easier now in this shitty weather!! Have wheelspin in all 3 gears now lol!! Oh well at least i know what the issue was the exhaust is still holding it back though!! oh also did a compression check to make sure all is well and reading a nice steady 175psi across all 4 cylinders including the one that injested some of a broken valve guide which is a relief!! Just a shame i didn't put new rings in but has done 15k race miles so 175psi is good!!! normally able to get 205-210psi on a new build so power would be better with fresh hone and rings but as i said just wanted it running quick and cheap so not bad at all should last a while at least another 15-20k miles if i look after it well!! :O)
very nice. glad to hear about that plug find.
I checked out that link you provided a bit back for a state side head builder, and I'm very excited about this. I'll definitely be looking you up for some details to pass along to them when it comes time to do so. I'm hoping to get a few heads out to them by March(~ish).
You know, I have a spare set of A3 pistons that have been washed with WD40 for a few years now. I think the mileage was about 120k when they were pulled. If there is a marking on them, or another way you know of for me to tell the compression, and you're interested in them, you're welcome to them.
Keep on keeping on, this is one of my fav threads at the moment.
-Mark D.
thanks for the offer i can get new ones here but only in 83mm was hoping to be able to get some stock ones and just drop em in at the time, but unfortunately couldn't do it i think there is one set of new honda ones in the U.S. but thats it none left in Japan either!! I have a spare 2nd hand set myself but unfortunately they happened to be 83mm!! Seemed odd as the engine seemed to be original from honda!! Funny looked up a spare block for fun they still do them was £2900 pounds!!! ouch!!! but at least i know i can get a A20A3/4 if i really really wanted too!! lol!!
As for head work for you i would really love to do yours for you but it's just the cost of the shipping and the cost of machine work in this country would be far cheaper to get it done at that place i found over your side. But if you really really wanted a head done by me i would be more than glad to do it for you or anyone else.
What i was thinking for a really good head on a high end budget would be some custom SI valves with 6.5mm stems waisted with 33.5-34mm head swirl polished tulip shaped head and flat underside, new seats to fit the 34mm valve head, 5 angle with radiused edges, exhaust valve 7mm stem waisted with 37.5mm head and flat underside this size will fit stock seat still so no need to alter again 5 angle with radiused edges, bronze guides fitted all round, use ET1 canadian 2G accord head valve retainers and platforms with springs from a good supplier like Cat cams or Crower etc. Camshaft with 290 degrees duration and 12mm lift on intake and 12.5mm lift on exhaust may need to modify the spring platforms to get an extra 1mm clearance for the cam. Again have the injector hole welded up on the inlet ports, even have the guide removed and the hole welded up completely then have it redrilled so that you don't get that horrible gap between the guide and the port, then have the exhaust port guide and ramp reshaped so it flows much nicer. But this would need a custom header to be bolted up and a race exhaust system. Potentially some serious power and revs from this if you wanted really high revs then the cam would have to be 300-310 degrees and you would have to look at getting titanium retainers and valves made up instead which would cost a few quid!! The valve train can handle the revs fine just you'd want to reduce the weight of the valves and retainers for quicker revving and just incase valve float becomes an issue. There's also the chambers which you could have welded up like open loop i'm not a fan of that to be honest becuase personally i think the chamber shape stock is good and all you do is block the flow of the valves by adding in the extra ally, the CR ratio can be improved by better ways of removing some material off the head and block as well as custom forged pistons with flat tops and only 3 valve relief pockets instead of the 4. Larger bore size will increase the CR ratio as well so going to a 83mm pistons will help. You can safely take off 1mm on the block as well as the head.
If on a tighter budget and if parts are hard to get hold off, you could just get some SI exhaust valves for A20 have them waisted and machined to 33-34mm or you could use the old exhaust valves from the A20/ET series (SI valves are nicer shape though!) and have the exhaust ones custom made still, use the retainers and platforms from the exhaust side of the A20 engine and use the double exhaust valve springs from A18/ET engines all round. Just have the injector ports welded up and leave the guide ramps stock on the inlet side, the guides will be reemed out for the new valves so no need to replace these this time round, the exhaust guides would be better off to be replaced with bronze ones or new cast iron ones or have a bronze insert fitted or have the grooved technique done to it. But you'd still be better off with custom header and exhaust system still. But you would still have to have 3 angle seats done as a minimum and have the chambers opened up a little for the valves and polish them up too.
I allready have a 10lb flywheel may look at getting another one made that is lighter, then i have my JDM leightweight pulley from DL which is just a single pulley for the Alternator, Karillo leightweight uprated conrods, then titanium pistons pins made up, then forged pistons with the flat tops and 3 valve pocket reliefs, some quality rings, ACL bearings, some mods to the crank to improve oil circulation, same for the block, then get the solid hub clutch disk put in 1/3 the weight of the spring hub disk from clutch net!! Then should be ready to rock for revs upto 9k rpm!! Then it's just a case of bolting on the head and see what we get!! The CR ratio is whats going to make the difference and going from 8.8:1 to 11.5:1 will have a big impact on power and torque the head gasket from felpro should hopefully last a while on that compression otherwise may have to get the block ringed and or run a copper gasket. If i run a copper one at least i can get a slimmer one and help increase the CR ratio. But lots to do and all going to take time and money, may start off with stock Honda A3 pistons in 83mm and see what we get with that and some block and head shaving if i can get a CR ratio of 10.5:1 that wouldn't be so bad either!!
Just finished tinkering with the ignition timing and the plugs deifnately running much much better the engine is revving a lot more freely and the rpm range has increased engine now pulls like a train to 7.5krpm will go higher but with loss in power and to be honest with stock rods don't want to go any higher than that for now!! Amazing the difference just changing the plugs can make!! The car just doesn't like resistor plugs needs all the ignition upgrades it can get really should get crank fired ignition fitted will do at some point but just want to enjoy having the car running well for now!! lol!!
I just saw your video on myspace. Thing is a beast man!!!
Blimey thought you would have seen those ages ago!! Those vids are from way back!! I have some track footage but struggling with getting it down to a sensible size and getting the footage up the right way camera was upside down at the time!! Video is super cool though have patience will be worth the weight!!
Oh and talking of weight had the car weighed after pulling a few bits out 900Kg's exactly with 1/4 of tank of gas in and the 10 litre reserve, have a quite a few other things to do reckon i can easily shave off another 45Kg's just a shame i can shave a few Kg's off too!! lol!!
Really happy with this engine compression is ok across the board 175psi all round was worried number 2 would be down as it had a tiny bit of damage by some cast iron guides falling into the old head and into the bores and piston but it's fine. The head seems to be working really well just can't wait to get a decent exhaust header and system on i'm reckoning that the power hike and torque hike is going to be pretty insane!! If i can get nearly 200bhp with just a stock low compression A20A1 engine it will really fly with the high compression lightweight bottom end!!
For those who haven't seen the car recently heres some pics of the outside and inside!! And yes for those who didn't realize this is a 2nd gen lude!!
Oh yeah I saw some of your videos a little while ago, those in car videos, of you topping out... But didn't see those ones with the engine and such. I thought that was from the new engine!
there's a good 20lbs of tar/sound deadening shit on that floorpan that can go. I've had a few friends do that, and it did save some weight, but it's a bitch of a job, and you'd be VERY surprised with just how much that goo aids in sound deadening. The thing will sound even more like riding in a tin can once that's out. ...but it's all in the name of weight reduction right.
-Mark D.
vid clips for some reason won't upload to myspace can't work out why?? it's about 33mb so not huge just the engine idling and me frantically trying to put the throttle cable back in position after i just booted it!! lol!! The track day vids are about 600mb so going to have to do something to that to reduce the size only 10minutes long but pretty good to watch. Still having issues with the brakes though pulls quite badly to the left, i stripped down the right caliper and bleed the fluid and made no difference, the left one keeps locking up and the right doens't seem to have enough pressure. Not sure if my valve has crapped out or if it's a problem somewhere else, the suspension has all new bushes and poly tie rod bushes so the suspension shouldn't be the issue the fact that the left keeps locking i still think it's a brakes issue either caliper or the valve. It was doing this when i rebuilt them just before the engine died the calipers were all new with disks and pads at the time as the engine died i didn't really look into it much thought it was the suspension alignment which was out at the time when i put the new suspension in. Now i have had it aligned and everything has been changed has to be caliper or the brake valve which is a real pia!! Have a spare pair of old 4 pot calipers so might stick them on and see if the issue goes away!! If it doesn't then it must be the valve, i have a couple of spares so isn't a major disaster just inconvinient!!
And the sound deadening, hmm yeah i have quite a bit from stock and aftermarket just not sure about removing all of it, i'm going to remove the stuff from the boot lid that will save a couple of Kilos but the stuff on the floor not sure to take out it kinda keeps the rust away!! Would be nice to get the weight down more but if i can get it to 850kg's which i think is achievable without too much effort i'm gonna be pretty happy with that!! Not much out there that is lighter!! thats for sure just a shame i didn't have enough spare cash for some really light buckets and ally side mounts would have been 10kg's lighter than what i have in place now!!
Use a heat gun from below, and a scraper from above. Wash the remaining film off with pre-wipe solvent, and you're floor pan will come up perfectly clean. Takes two people and some beer, and chances are your buddy will get bored with the heat gun and start lighting the rubber floor plugs on fire. If this happens, just poke them out with your scraper, the flaming plug will drop down and burn him all to shit, and he'll stop burning them.
Glass is HEAVY. I plan on replacing my 45 lb hatch glass with perspex or Lexan
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
Dry ice works better just chips off with chisel and hammer!! And fortunately mine is a DL so doesn't come with any electrics or sun roof, and no PS or AC so is allready light as they come and also being UK spec doesn't have those humongous bumper iron girders at each end!!
Hey, mine doesn't even have power steering. 930 kg with a probable B20A gold top pushing. Should go okay.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks