Leaking Oil (I want to cry).

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Do the timing belt while you're at it. It would be kind of dumb to do all of that work and not change the belt and tensioner.

meh, those were done ~15k miles ago.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Ok, here's my preliminary project outline. I want to get this confirmed before I order any parts.

=======================================
OIL LEAK
=======================================
parts:
- HONDA valve cover gasket
- HONDA front camshaft oil seal
- HONDA front crankshaft oil seal
- HONDA oil pump seal

tools:
- general hand tools
- torque wrench
- hammer/mallet
- zip ties/bottle of wife's nail polish
- motor oil

questions:
- I know I need gasket seal shit for the hump-corners on the sides of the valve cover, but do I need anything other than motor oil for replacing the cam/crank/oil pump seals?
- Can someone who has done this procedure before, please indicate points of the process that I should look out for that may cause me trouble?
- is it necessary to detach the PowerSteering and AC components to get enough room to work along that side of the engine?


=======================================
MASTER CYLINDER REPLACEMENT
=======================================
parts:
- replacement master cylinder
- brake fluid

tools:
- general hand tools
- torque wrench
- tubing for pre-bleeding the new master cylinder
- bleeder kit


questions:
- I don't have a staionary vice. Is that absolutely necessary for holding the master cylinder while bleeding it before installing in the car? How hard is it to pump the system?
- Can someone who has done this procedure before, please indicate points of the process that I should look out for that may cause me trouble?

[OptimusPrimeSr]

DAY1 - cam/crank/oil pump/valve cover gasket/seals
0. loosen driver side front wheel, jackstand the front end, remove driver's front tire
1. detach cruise control and lay to side.
2. remove valve cover (discard gasket)
3. remove upper timing cover
4. zip tie and remove camshaft sprocket

- replace front camshaft oil seal (if necessary)

5. place floor jack (w/ wood+cloth cushion) under oil pan
6. position engine @ TDC
7. remove left engine mount
8. remove crankshaft pulley (hopefully not too much trouble)
9. remove water pump pulley
10. remove lower timing cover

- replace front crankshaft oil seal (if necessary)
- remove oil pump and replace seals and gasket

11. clean and reinstall oil pump
12. clean and reinstall crankshaft sprocket
13. clean and reinstall lower timing cover
14. clean and reinstall water pump pulley
15. clean and reinstall crankshaft pulley
16. clean and reinstall camshaft sprocket with timing belt
17. reinstall left engine mount
18. verify timing is still good
19. clean and reinstall upper timing cover

- install valve cover gasket (gasket sealer on camshaft hump corners)

20. clean and reinstall valve cover
21. put wheel back on, lower front end, tighten lug nuts
22. reattach cruise control
23. test drive

what am I missing?


brake master cylinder + oil pan gasket will be done at a later date...preferably when its time for my next oil change.

[w261w261]

I didn't spend a lot of time going through this thread, but I thought that I'd throw out that a typical oil leak comes from the oil filter mounting plate gasket. It's a little figure-8 shaped thing. At the same time that you replace it, I'd do the oil pressure switch also. Just be careful of the (3?) little bolts that hold the mount on, if you break them off I think it would be Trouble in River City.

I also was getting a leak from the oil filter gasket itself. A ridge of crud had built up on the filter mounting surface, and the filter gasket couldn't make a good seal. I scraped it off with my fingernail, and finished off with a rag with some solvent on it. You can feel this surface from below when you change your filter.

I think the oil leaks are the biggest pain with our cars, maybe followed by suspension creaks. Not too bad, all in all.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

I didn't spend a lot of time going through this thread, but I thought that I'd throw out that a typical oil leak comes from the oil filter mounting plate gasket. It's a little figure-8 shaped thing. At the same time that you replace it, I'd do the oil pressure switch also. Just be careful of the (3?) little bolts that hold the mount on, if you break them off I think it would be Trouble in River City.

I also was getting a leak from the oil filter gasket itself. A ridge of crud had built up on the filter mounting surface, and the filter gasket couldn't make a good seal. I scraped it off with my fingernail, and finished off with a rag with some solvent on it. You can feel this surface from below when you change your filter.

I think the oil leaks are the biggest pain with our cars, maybe followed by suspension creaks. Not too bad, all in all.

Yeah, after ordering the new seals/gaskets (from Majestic Honda), I continued to peruse the boards and noticed that the oil filter mounting plate gasket has wreaked havoc for others on this board.

I'm going to give it a thorough inspection when replacing the cam/crank/oil pump/valve cover gaskets/seals (hopefully this weekend if the parts arrive in time). If necessary, I'll add the oil filter mounting plate gasket to the next job when I replace the oil pan gasket (which I know to be leaking). I'll do some research on the oil pressure switch as well. Thanks for the tips.


I've only had this car for 1.5 years, and this is the first trouble I've had with oil leaks. And the suspension creaks were ridiculous on the CB7 I drove before this.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

UPDATE: removed valve cover and upper timing cover to get a quick look. None of the replacement gaskets/seals have arrived yet, but I just couldn't help myself with the nice weather we're had today.

1. valve cover gasket was leaking...I think the mechanic took it off when investigating the oil leak and just put it right back on without taking the time to remove the sealant residue at the corners nor applying any new sealant. I didn't check the torque either, so maybe it wasn't on tight enough.

2. front camshaft oil seal was immaculate (reassuring considering I paid extra for this car since the engine was new). however, there were oil trails down *both* sides originating from the valve cover cam-hump thing a ma bob.

3. so basically, from up under the car, I see oil coming down from higher up than the oil pan gasket (albeit, the oil pan is probably leaking too, but I'm working my way down) which means the most likely places are the oil filter base gasket, oil pump seal(s), or the front crankshaft oil seal as possibilities for that leak.

4. the 2 pieces of gasket on the sides of the upper timing belt look like they're original...how important are they to replace? I might as well, since it can't be more than a buck or two, and I do still have another order to place for the oil pan gasket and possibly the oil filter base gasket.


That's about it for the day...the sun began to set and so I covered the exposed engine, and brought the valve cover and upper timing cover in for some cleaning. I have brand new hi-temp engine paint that's been collecting dust for a year (was going to paint VC of previous car but then totaled it), so I think I'll paint this VC before putting it back on.

It's been over a year since I've worked on my car (other than oil changes and the like), and I gotta say...HOOOOOOORAH I miss this shit. Sooo relaxing.

Once the parts come, I'll get back out there and snap some pics...these types of threads are worthless w/out pics.

[russiankid]

Do you mean the gasket on the timing belt cover? If so its about $20-30 for the set. You can reuse it as it just keeps dust out.

[Oldblueaccord]

UPDATE: removed valve cover and upper timing cover to get a quick look. None of the replacement gaskets/seals have arrived yet, but I just couldn't help myself with the nice weather we're had today.

1. valve cover gasket was leaking...I think the mechanic took it off when investigating the oil leak and just put it right back on without taking the time to remove the sealant residue at the corners nor applying any new sealant. I didn't check the torque either, so maybe it wasn't on tight enough.

Make sure you use new gromuts,under the nuts, as well that hold down the VC thats most important. The nuts dont get torqued much.

2. front camshaft oil seal was immaculate (reassuring considering I paid extra for this car since the engine was new). however, there were oil trails down *both* sides originating from the valve cover cam-hump thing a ma bob.

3. so basically, from up under the car, I see oil coming down from higher up than the oil pan gasket (albeit, the oil pan is probably leaking too, but I'm working my way down) which means the most likely places are the oil filter base gasket, oil pump seal(s), or the front crankshaft oil seal as possibilities for that leak.

This is just coming from me but the main sources for leaks are. Rear: oil filter base gasket Driver side: oil pump leaks oil out of the shaft sprays it everywhere in a fine mist. You can use a white sheet of paper held near it to see it in action. Passenger side: Distributor O ring

4. the 2 pieces of gasket on the sides of the upper timing belt look like they're original...how important are they to replace? I might as well, since it can't be more than a buck or two, and I do still have another order to place for the oil pan gasket and possibly the oil filter base gasket.


Its just keeps dust dirt out, I have not run my upper cover in prolly 8 years or more. Its your preferance really.


That's about it for the day...the sun began to set and so I covered the exposed engine, and brought the valve cover and upper timing cover in for some cleaning. I have brand new hi-temp engine paint that's been collecting dust for a year (was going to paint VC of previous car but then totaled it), so I think I'll paint this VC before putting it back on.

It's been over a year since I've worked on my car (other than oil changes and the like), and I gotta say...HOOOOOOORAH I miss this shit. Sooo relaxing.

Once the parts come, I'll get back out there and snap some pics...these types of threads are worthless w/out pics.

[Dr_Snooz]

The deal with these cars is that they will pee oil from every single seal in the block given enough time. About the only seal that will not leak is the rear main. At the dealer, all the seals behind the timing cover are changed with each timing belt change. I think you're on the right track just changing everything.

The only hard part with the timing belt change is getting the driver's side motor mount to line up. I found getting the oil filter base off with the engine still in the car to be difficult. I think I finally got mine off by pulling the air filter assembly and use a big Crescent wrench to remove the oil pressure sending unit.

Good luck.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Do you mean the gasket on the timing belt cover? If so its about $20-30 for the set. You can reuse it as it just keeps dust out.

meh...in that case I may reuse the old ones or cut up the old VC gasket and see if that will work. Either way, I'm not really interested in spending $20/30 to keep the dust out.

Make sure you use new gromuts,under the nuts, as well that hold down the VC thats most important. The nuts dont get torqued much.

good point, and one I didn't even think about when ordering the VC gasket. Last time I changed the VC gasket (old CB7), I just used a felpro kit that included new gromuts and I think it even included new rocker-arm o-rings. I guess I'll stop by advanced auto and pick up a set of new gromuts as the old ones seemed shitty, and I had to pry them off of the VC with a flat head.

The only hard part with the timing belt change is getting the driver's side motor mount to line up.

are you referring to lining it back up to when you are putting it back in?

I found getting the oil filter base off with the engine still in the car to be difficult. I think I finally got mine off by pulling the air filter assembly and use a big Crescent wrench to remove the oil pressure sending unit.

Good luck.

yeah, I'm kind dreading this after reading the HOW TO. That poster had a full lift and still it seemed tricky. I foresee a super soar neck while up under the car trying to get my wrench to it.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah the oil filter base youll have to remove all the air box stuff and work from the top. Unless you can get your car high up and safe enough to get underneath it I would work from above. You can peak down thru the intake runners and see whats going on well enough.

The VC I would get a new one I think they come with the new gromuts. I'll tell you last month I pulled mine, its been leaking some, and permtexed the front edges and put it back and it still leaks. I wanted to try it out but I have neve been able to get them to hold with any goop on em at all. Now I have gooped the distributor O ring area with alot of luck. Those gromuts put all the pressure on the valve cover and once there squished down there no tension hot/cold to keep it sealed I think.

Also water clamp that PVC hose to the oil pan it could be leaking there or even thru the hose if its gotten porus.


wp

[OptimusPrimeSr]

ok, a little confused about the VC gromuts...

which number? I assumed #12, but the description for #12 is "WASHER, HEAD COVER"



The VC I would get a new one I think they come with the new gromuts.
I'll see if I can get this one back on without leaks first...before considering a new one.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Quickie of the VC paint job underway...I always like how red looked in others' cars...so why not. This is after the 2nd and final clear coat.



Nice and clean! anyone know the torque specs for the posts that the VC acorn nuts screw down on? The middle one came loose when removing the VC yesterday and I want to make sure I torque it down good.



Ok, back to the oil leak. Arrows show the estimated path of the oil from leaky VC...dear god I'd shit myself if the head gasket is leaking...


edit: oh and its not the best angle, but the cam seal is bone dry.

[w261w261]

In my opinion, those that do not use Honda OEM gaskets do so at their peril. I replaced the VC gasket from a non-Honda source and had problems with leaks. I went to the Honda dealer and the problems were solved. You don't have to crank down on the studs holding the VC on, in fact, too much torque can mess things up.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

finished product...


the emblem could have been masked off a little better, but whatever...can't really tell unless your right up on it.

[2oodoor]

wow nice job on the VC !!
the grommets are rubber bootys under those caps #12
The deal with the oil leaks is the round o ring type material they use in those odd shapes, turn into hard brittle material and develop cracks. Both the oil filter base gask, and the oil pump internal seals are made of the same thing.
The oil pump is simple to fix, the gask. were like 14 bucks at Honda. The oill pumps are usually fine just by replacing those rubbers.
The filter base gask is really easy to do when the intake manifold is off !

[OptimusPrimeSr]

wow nice job on the VC !!

ty ty

...when the intake manifold is off !

lol

[2oodoor]

good "hiearchial "recollection of events in the procedure, we could use more of that around here .. they don't disappear like lost unsupported images.

[Dr_Snooz]

anyone know the torque specs for the posts that the VC acorn nuts screw down on?

7 ft-lbs. which is slightly tighter than you can turn them with your fingers.

[2oodoor]

7 ft-lbs. which is slightly tighter than you can turn them with your fingers.

oh man I forgot.. about as tight as you can twist with a nutdriver if even that.

[russiankid]

The deal with these cars is that they will pee oil from every single seal in the block given enough time. About the only seal that will not leak is the rear main. At the dealer, all the seals behind the timing cover are changed with each timing belt change. I think you're on the right track just changing everything.

The only hard part with the timing belt change is getting the driver's side motor mount to line up. I found getting the oil filter base off with the engine still in the car to be difficult. I think I finally got mine off by pulling the air filter assembly and use a big Crescent wrench to remove the oil pressure sending unit.

Good luck.

haha my rear main leaked.

[russiankid]

oh man I forgot.. about as tight as you can twist with a nutdriver if even that.

I usually use a ratchet and tighten them evenly until they stop without any force, and I just leave it there.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

first set of parts arrived, but I didn't notice until about an hour ago and it was too close to sunset to begin.

Anyway, I went ahead and installed a few misc parts and removed the black plastic protective shield up under the front bumper. The driver's side was caked in oil and dirt...passenger side was clean. Sprayed it with degreaser, hosed it off, and its drying in the back. So now I have a better view of the driver's side of the engine from up under and oil is everywhere. I'll snap a few pics tomorrow morning before I begin the work.

Oh, and what's this tube (outlined in red)?

[russiankid]

The tube is for the PCV system. That is what drains back the oil that goes through the PCV. The hose leaks on just about every 3gen. Just replace the hose and get some new hose clamps, simple fix. Just be careful, the other end(not on the pan) is plastic.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

The tube is for the PCV system. That is what drains back the oil that goes through the PCV. The hose leaks on just about every 3gen. Just replace the hose and get some new hose clamps, simple fix. Just be careful, the other end(not on the pan) is plastic.

is the tube #3 in this picture?