Looking great! Nice to see your silver lude is back!
Looking great! Nice to see your silver lude is back!
Awesome, looks great! Glad to see you tinkering around with your Prelude some more!
whats the plan with the block?
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
Thanks guys, it will look a bit nicer when i've finished, the paint looks gloss as it was wet it's actually satin so will dull down a bit when dry. If I get time I'll try and paint the rest silver again.
As for the block this was a spare that i took out when the head went tits up had a couple of broken valve guides that had bits rattling around, fortunately didn't damage anything apart from put some nice little pitted marks on top of the crown!! Will get caked in carbon soon anyways!! The bores are fine and engine seems to spin nice and free, the engine was blueprinted about 5 years ago by myself and the bearings all look like new, i did put some new thrust washers in as their was noticeable end play on the crank the new stock size washers cured it sweet as a nut!, did put all new gaskets on as well, and a general quick tidy up and cleaned the head surface of a bit of grime and tiny bit of rust. Seems to be level and fine. The pistons are patent ones with the CR ratio of A20A1 unfortunately honda have stopped making stock size A20A3/4 pistons i wanted to get these as they are better designed and have the higher CR ratio but I'll just have to make do with what i got!! The engine has about 15k miles on it but as i said all seems fine i did retorque the con rod bolts to 30lb ft as when i inspected the old engine which was completely mashed ( oh shit i forgot to take pics!! lol!! allready gone to scrapyard with the scrap! lol!! ) had several holes and cracks with two broken rods and a 3rd one that was bent. Engine had done just over 30k miles previously before blowing up, inspected the bearings i think it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways as the bearings were showing heavy wear maybe another few thousand miles at most, then i noticed what was left of half a rod and half the end cap bent off, i then started to undo what was left of the rods and noticed that one was quite loose!! So i'm thinking that maybe one of the rod bolt nuts came off and that led to the conrod departing the crank which then the force of that jamming the crank at 7k rpm cause the other rod to break off completely and the other one to bend. So i still think that the stock internal rods are still able to withstand quite a punishment on an engine thats been preped for high rpms and blueprinted properly, lightening the internals will help with reliability and shot peening and polishing as well.
But the block is just for getting the car up and running as quick as possible to see what the head can do with a stock block, and then use it for a bit, then will be building a new high compression engine with lightweight rods pistons and light weight piston pins to see what it can really do with another head where I'm going to go silly banana with with slimmer stemmed valves, bigger valves too and much more lary camshaft and bronze guides try some other ideas on port shapes too etc.
So really this is to just do some R&D and see how long it takes before it blows up!! lol!!
This is just awesome work!
http://pages.videotron.com/omus
3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67742
It's alive!! Really rough sounding and can't dive on the road yet as my mate who was going to test the car is off sick tomorrow god dammit!! Pulled 48hours and no sleep for nothing!! grrrrrr!!
Car sounds sick so frigging loud!! Going to spend some time tuning it and winding up the neighbours hehehehe!! Will take some pics and vids of it running tomorrow when i get up!! Got to get a few bits the car is a right PIA to drive the clutchnet clutch is so grabby and the 10lb flywheel is just so easy to stall unless revving the shit out the engine!! lol!! Should be interesting on the road can't wait to try out Wide open Throttle been far too long i just want to drive it!!
awesome, keep us updated!
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
Update heres some pics will try and upload vid tomorrow myspace is being and arse at the moment and timing out!! lol!!
Wow, that looks awesome! I can't wait to see it running. Keep up the good work!
........................
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
Those runners get me all hot and bothered!
SEXY!! Can't wait to see/hear it running. Post tons of vids!
Looks great!
Wow that looks mint!
I like the blue funnels. Looking great!
Not as mint as it use to be unfortunately!! But luckily i do have a spare one that is!! hehehe.
Not sure whats going on with myspace won't let me upload the vid got my first complaint from a neighbour today wouldn't mind but she's 100 meters away if it were that bad i'm sure either ones next door would have said something!! Moany old cow!
Tuning is getting there but i need new jetting on the idle circuit will probably take it in to get tuned and dyoned be interesting to see what it's putting down now with the crap exhaust and then after with a proper header and a well made race exhaust system.
Are you able to use filters on this setup?
http://pages.videotron.com/omus
3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67742
Filters? don't they restrict air flow! hehehe Yeah i could put something on my original K&N's don't fit the trumpets plus i thought shame to hide them!! Doesn't get used all the time i've never had any issues with not using filters so won't be bothering this time either!!
Passed the car test so thats a relief!! my bit of bodywork fooled them into thinking it was mint and pristine!! hehehe.
Had the carbs re-jetted and setup couldn't do this at home the neighbours were bitching too much!! lol!!
Unfotunately as expected the combination of crap exhaust and low compression ratio on the block only led to 172.5bhp but considering it's pretty good figure for now i think the header and exhaust being made up properly should account for quite an increase the tuning guy said it sounded like it was being strangled and felt it had a lot more to go but revs die off at 7k but this should be nearer 8-8.5k with the cam and head work i've done!! Running really well though took it for a quick spin back home from test station and it's seriously rapid 1st and 2nd gear is just instant 0-60 time must be pretty mental!! The clutch is much nicer to use bedded in on the way up to the station it's actually pretty driveable in the street!! Going to try and get the exhaust sorted out ASAP and get the whole thing done properly reckon could gain easily 15-20bhp from header and system just not sure what size collector and main pipe to use? 2.25" or 2.5"?? What do you think? Also have some tweaks on the ignition side of things to make still so may find a few more horses hidden in there!! But plan was to just get it running for now for track use till i have time to build the high compression engine and maybe get some other bit's made for the head with different shaped valves and thinner stems. Main thing is it's bleeding quick, bloody loud and i love it!! Damn thing did blow up the alternator or voltage regulator again though!! It's allways got to have something go wrong!! this is like the 4th alternator and 6th regulator to go!! not sure what I'm doing wrong with this, i did accidentaly short out the alternator power wire with a spanner when i was fiddling so not sure if that helped blow it up or not!!
Have a different alternator and regulator in so hopefully will last a while!!
Getting the suspension aligned tomorrow as i put some poly tie rod bushes in the other day. Must say handles and stops like a dream with those in!! Definately will be buying more and changing them into all my ludes!!
sweet so pull it off and send it to me. You can start your next one asap!!
wow mr. head guru, the new setup is looking slick as hell! Those valves are huge.
172.5, good god that's impressive with stock c/r and exhaust! And if it dies at 7k already there's no doubt your exhaust is strangling it.
Amazing work indeed.
Are you planning on a custom header?
right, so in Feb or early March, I'll be in the market for 2 heads just like that. If you're interested in doing it for me, we'll talk $$ and coordinate where the heads will come from (ie. I send you 2 of mine, or just pay you to source 2 over there). Those numbers are insane for a stock c/r and shit exhaust. Which block is in there right now? A20A3 or A1 (or A2). Is the whole bottom end bone stock? What cam was in there during that dyno pull?
...what kind of dyno was it? What are you running for your ignition sys? Me likes.
any chance you can scan post up those dyno slips?
Very impressive indeed.
-Mark D.
Hi guys thanks for the comments again!!
I try to keep everything as stock as possible so that we can see just how far we can push these old engines without spending mega bucks, was keen to do this before i pushed out the high compression fully built race engine. As with a few spare parts some machining plus webers obviosuly everyone could have an engine with tonnes of torque and respectable bhp levels!!
The Dyno print out i will take pic off soon just so much to do to prepare for track tomorrow and now it's threatening to blizzard so not sure if going to make it!! Had to get 4 new tyres cause the old ones were flat spotted from being sat for 3 years so was pissed at that more expense!! lol!! But the curve is pretty amazing. Yes the exhaust is shit it's got a stock header ported and polished a little, then a really poor downpipe with 2" joint leading to a 2.25" crush bent system which is more like a 2" -1.75" system at one bend in particular. Might for now just get it chopped up and put some mandrel bends in the bad bits, get a new downpipe made and get a 2.25" collector put in and see how that goes wouldn't cost too much and i could use that on the white SI when I then go for the 2.5" full race setup with custom header!!
Right down to technical details, what i used was A20 head (all the same as far as i know) A18 exhaust valve springs all round, A20/A18/ET/ET1 exhaust valves machined to 33mm (i don't like the profile of the head or the thickness of the stem i think i could increase flow considerably if i used SI valves exhaust valves and had them waisted and remachined to 33mm!) The exhaust valves are from a Cosworth engine the stem size is slighly thicker by .25mm and used the cossy collets which fit the honda retainers fine, the stem height and collet groove have to be positioned just right and the exhaust rockers need a bit of machining on the underside to have a nice amount of clearance!! I used Exhaust platforms and retainers on the inlets and left the rockers alone on that side.
The camshaft is a pipercams 285 degree with 10mm lift to be honest this cam is too much for the exhaust and in the past with the big valves, i have found the 272 degree performs better across the board but as thats in my other car i had no choice but to stick with this for the minute. Ultimately with the proper exhaust in place i would want something like a 290-295 degree camshaft with 11-12mm lift, this would make it really fly!!
Block end wise allways pushing what you can do with stock blocks, it's based around a A20A4 but was built using patent pistons which have the A20A1 CR ratio so big dish in the middle!! Can't get honda stock pistons anymore i did try hoping to get the CR ratio upto 9.4:1 this would have netted in more efficient exhaust as the gases get reduced with higher CR ratio, and also more explosive force would increase Bhp. Estimate with stock honda CR ratio would have been about 180-185bhp roughly. With the exhaust and header i reckon an increase of around 15-20bhp would easily be achievable. The block is just blueprinted by myself and has acutally done 15k miles it's bearings are like new but if i weren't so lazy i should have honed it and put new rings in this would have given me quite a boost in power as the compression test was quite low about 160-170psi when i have a new run in engine compression test are normally about 200-210psi and will stay like that for 10k miles before tailing off slightly. The internals are all balanced etc, and the rings are hand gapped general blueprinting procedures, but the rods are stress relieved and polished stock ones i've also done up the rod bolts extra 5lbft as the stock settigs aren't high enough they work loose after 30k miles!! this is what caused the last engine to blow up!!
So essentially all i have added to a stock A20A1 is inlet manifold twin webbers and some trick headwork with cam and a slightly better than stock exhaust and bingo you have 172.5bhp which is probably still improveable if i had a new block in and still haven't finished tweeking the ignition settings and cam timing settings so may find a few extra bhp i normally do after a while!!
Ignition all I am using is Splitfire leads (my crane cams leads snapped off at the plug end!! they were new so well pissed off!!), new rotor arm, cleaned up the contacts on the dizzy, the coil is stock, and used NGK non resistor plugs, i have some Direct hits ignition capacitors which screw onto the plugs i might give them a try and see how it performs. I definately want to convert to dizzy less system using Ford twin coil packs from EDIS setup but just wanted it running for now!! Would definately gain power from this I'm sure as well as accuracy and being able to alter the timing from laptop rather than physically!!
Right it's dry and sunny so I'm off for a blat will try and rig up the camera so you can have a look!! will post everything soon promise just so much to do!!
I'd be happy to sort out anyones head but seriously there is a good place is U.S. i don't mind but the shipping is a killer and i don't have many A20 spares and getting hold of A20 engines is now a hard job!! So if you would like to send them more than welcome I'll jus charge you for machining work, any parts used including dremel tools and any fuel for transporting the heads around to the machinist and back. But seriously check out these guys they know there shit and can do some nice work!!
http://www.cccylinderheads.com/
Anyone what can cater for 5 angle seats with radiused edges is a good outfit someone who says only do 3 angle and i use a hand cutter or worse grinding stones you need to avoid like the plague!! Only use people with Serdi as they know what they are doing off and have loads of money and experience to go with that!! Serdi machine costs like $30-40k to buy for seat cutting, used by F1 and Indy teams. I think the cost in shipping and then the cost in machining you could have a race head done by these guys but don't do their packages i can advise you on what to have done and just stick to that!!
This is pretty awesome, and just goes to show that the major limitation of the A20 is head flow. Except for the exhaust each of the major parts are complimentary. The larger valves, 285 cam, and single throttle per cylinder intake; all designed for maximum flow. I bet this thing would really scream with a 4-1 tuned pipe header.
And yeah, I'm sure you could find more power with an electronic ignition. At the very least you could increase the advance under light throttle cruise and pick up some MPG and throttle response. I found that the timing table from the LS Integras is an improvement over the stock A18 distributor curve in the low RPM/low throttle range, as it brings in lots of advance very early on. The "A" engines don't have quite the optimized combustion chamber that the "B" engines do so they need a little more advance at the top end than what's in the 'teg table. However, with higher compression the LS-Integra timing might be spot on.
Seriously, you need the electronic ignition. It's not hard to do either. Once you get the crank sensor and trigger ring done the rest is just simple wiring and finding a good place to mount the ignition module, Megajolt controller, and coil.
One thing I'm wondering about though. What is your vacuum reading at idle? Do the Webers have separate vacuum ports for each barrel or are they combined? One characterstic (by their very design) of individual throttle setups is that they have low manifold vacuum. This causes major issues if you need to use that signal for fueling (EFI) or spark timing. So many people switch to throttle position based tuning instead of MAP based tuning with ITB setups. If you went with the electronic ignition you might have to do the same depending on what kind of MAP your setup produces.
C|
Theres more to come I'm sure just need to seriously ditch the exhaust, the head is restricting flow it's definately the exhaust, i've had other engines rev much higher and the cam isn't ideal. I think the power from the ET1 was better and maybe even the shorter runners might be better too. It's Chamber was smaller though so the CR ratio was higher for sure probably around 9.5-10:1 also revved higher peaked at 7k and revved to 7.5k still this one peaks at 6.5k and pulls to 7k but with the valves, headwork and the camshaft it should be peaking at around 7.5k and pulling to 8k it just sounds bogged down like before i had this rubbish exhaust made. If i get this new one made up i'm sure it will release a serious amount of power just the fact that it will be a uniformed size diameter instead of going from 2" to 2.25" to crushed bend about 2" And one is even more like 1.8" it's so badly bent!! so a nice mandrel bent 2.25" or 2.5" with same size collector and long primary header still going to stick with 4-2-1 with extra long primaries I'm sure it will pickup some serious revs and power to boot. Then the rest will have to be taken care off with a high compression block with some custom pistons, might even look at welding the chambers a bit possibly will ask my engineer see what he thinks, i like the hemi style chambers though so we'll see.
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